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Does anyone know when and where the accent we know as the London one came about? Are there two London accents? Is Cockney the true London accent or are there others which can claim to be genuine London accents?
There were rural accents in Sussex and Kent until very recently - does anyone remember a rural accent in London?
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the London accent
Does anyone know when and where the accent we know as the London one came about? Are there two London accents? Is Cockney the true London accent or are there others which can claim to be genuine London accents? There were rural accents in Sussex and Kent until very recently - does anyone remember a rural accent in London?
Re: the London accent
yes i do it came out in the year of 1862 when a man called charles burton had an accent and people picked up on it and starting talking like he was and now it's known as the london accent [english accent]
Re: the London accent
No regional accent started with one man.
Nothing started with one man.
Re: the London accent
Try to define an accent if you can:
I certainly remember there being geographically associated features of speech pronunciation in Manchester in my youth (we could identify which part of Manchester someone came from quite accurately).
But, accents are not so solid as popular imagination has it - in fact, trying to "reproduce" an accent frequently results in caricature rather than accuracy. (Great actors instinctively seem to know this and adapt the way they speak rather than use an accent - think how easy it is to see through "Americans" using English accents - technically perfect, but totally unbelievable - and visa versa I am sure.)
Like all aspects of language use, accent is a synthesis of individual features and compromise which adapt with time and fashion.
Re: the London accent
Something a bit more tangible and real than 'time and fashion' surely?
The mobility of labour, for example, has always been the major factor in altering the way people speak. And that has depended always upon where there was work and more importantly, why it was where it was.
Re: the London accent
There should be a study, while there's still time, of the nuances between a deep south london accent, and a typical Bethnal green or inner East End accent.
When did the last person use the Dickensian (Yiddish?) 'wee' as in 'Ve Vont Wenables'?
And there are still south londoners who swallow their words almost completely.
But things are changing very very fast. Faster than they have ever done.
Re: the London accent
From what I can hear amongst the teens & young adults, a completely new accent has developed - so all researchers had really better hurry. This is a very new thing - I am sure that I didn't hear it so much even 3 years ago.
Re: the London accent
The way that people speak has always shifted in a geological fashion.
The middle class drift from BBCRP - and the corresponding working class attempt to imitate it, resulting in that peculiar dialect 'Proper Cockney' - or the Sandhurst Sargeant Major. Both now museum pieces. As is the Cockney of Dickens. The 'V' 'W' morphism. of Sam Weller's father in the courtroom:
"Vith a Wee Samivel, vith a Wee."
The mid 70's saw a huge rise in exchange between the children of the Windrush generation, and young, rebellious white culture. At one end of the spectrum this took the form of the White Rasta, who made a point of speaking in the densest patoi possible as part of his rejection of 'Babylon.'
But more generally took the inevitable form of West Indian rhythms and mannerisms (teeth-kissing etc) being adopted. This has merely given more vigour and range to english. Each culture discovers the means of expressing its particular dilemmas and concerns. Some of those were shared by white kids in the same inner cities, and therefore were the logical, most natural sounding means to express them.
And they also made you look cool. Maybe that's what 'cool' means.
Re: the London accent
I'm a South Londoner living in North London, and I notice the difference in my accent to the accents of the locals. It isn't anything I could put my finger on, but it is definately there.
Re: the London accent
I am about to begin rehearsal for a play in which I have a South London accent. Any help would be great. Suggestions of actors I could listen to would be wonderful.
Many thanks
Re: the London accent
> I am about to begin rehearsal for a play in which I
> have a South London accent. Any help would be great.
> Suggestions of actors I could listen to would be
> wonderful.
> Many thanks
Go to Lewisham market.
Or Charlton.
Re: the London accent
One marker is the pronounciation of Greenwich.
In southeast london, it's GRINwhich. Everywhere else it's GRENwhich.
Re: the London accent
its very interesting the difference between south and east london, not so much now, but more so just after the second world war.
id say the more obvious south london accent would be like actor Alan Ford who plays "Brick Top" in the film Snatch, its more pronounced than the east london/essex slur, and also more abrupt and understandable.
theres not much info anywhere on the internet about this..shame.
Re: the London accent
> its very interesting the difference between south and
> east london, not so much now, but more so just after
> the second world war.
>
> id say the more obvious south london accent would be
> like actor Alan Ford who plays "Brick Top" in the
> film Snatch, its more pronounced than the east
> london/essex slur, and also more abrupt and
> d understandable.
>
> theres not much info anywhere on the internet about
> this..shame.
If you listen very carefully to some versions of Cockney, you can still sometimes hear a touch of the swede in there. The root vegetable, I mean.
People of a certain age from, say Eltham, or the extreme south east of London, can sound very Wurzelly.
So the question is, what were the differences between the Kent and Essex accents before London ate them up.
Re: the London accent
There should be a study, while there's still time, of the nuances between a deep south london accent, and a typical Bethnal green or inner East End accent.
When did the last person use the Dickensian (Yiddish?) 'wee' as in 'Ve Vont Wenables'?
And there are still south londoners who swallow their words almost completely.
But things are changing very very fast. Faster than they have ever done.