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The current series of Reith Lectures delivered by Daniel Barenboim is supposed to be about Barenboim’s views on music. But these lectures in reality are about Daniel Barenboim. Notwithstanding the questions allegedly raised by Reith Lecture audiences as well as the spirited discussion on the BBC’s Reith webpage, the main issue is surely not concerned with the points raised by Maestro Barenboim but with the Maestro himself.
Daniel Barenboim is a musical genius, a rarity. Great many of his musical performances attest to this supposition. His musical memory is unbeatable, his energy is endless. The Maestro is on the very top of the music profession, both in terms of achievement and in acknowledgement. But, evidently, Daniel Barenboim is driven for even more acknowledgement, more control and more power than what is possible within the world of professional music.
The introduction to each of Barenboim’s Reith Lectures states: St John said, "In the beginning was the word", while Goethe claimed that, "In the beginning was the deed". But in these lectures Daniel Barenboim's contention is that: “In the beginning was sound.”
In other words, Barenboim is not only in a league with St John and Goethe but he is above them. Even if he fails to convince us with his arguments, by the fifth lecture this St John-Goethe-Barenboim line will be ingrained in the public.
The lectures are attended by celebrities (though Chicago was not as spectacular as London). The important aspect here is to demonstrate that celebrities flock to learn from the Master. It so happens that in some cases these celebrities are not interested in their own questions, in other cases they are more qualified to lecture rather than question the Maestro.
Barenboim’s cherry-picked West-Eastern Divan Orchestra - consisting of talented, young and privileged (that is educated) musicians from various Arab countries and Israel – is not only not a solution/help for the Israel/Palestinian conflict but it is an insult to all those Palestinian and Israeli people who have been working tirelessly for decades on the ground to bring about peace. Residing in Germany – as Barenboim does - and delivering occasional high profile, televised concert tours with the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra seems a long way from the realities of the conflict on the ground. Indeed; Barenboim’s attitude to Palestinians and Israelis is unacceptably patronising.
The theatrically staged five-city tour of the Reith Lectures and the televised tours with the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra will keep and raise Barenboim’s profile outside the world of professional music but they will contribute neither to profound scholarship on music nor, indeed, to peace in the Middle-East.
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Barenboim and music
The current series of Reith Lectures delivered by Daniel Barenboim is supposed to be about Barenboim’s views on music. But these lectures in reality are about Daniel Barenboim. Notwithstanding the questions allegedly raised by Reith Lecture audiences as well as the spirited discussion on the BBC’s Reith webpage, the main issue is surely not concerned with the points raised by Maestro Barenboim but with the Maestro himself.
Daniel Barenboim is a musical genius, a rarity. Great many of his musical performances attest to this supposition. His musical memory is unbeatable, his energy is endless. The Maestro is on the very top of the music profession, both in terms of achievement and in acknowledgement. But, evidently, Daniel Barenboim is driven for even more acknowledgement, more control and more power than what is possible within the world of professional music.
The introduction to each of Barenboim’s Reith Lectures states:
St John said, "In the beginning was the word", while Goethe claimed that, "In the beginning was the deed". But in these lectures Daniel Barenboim's contention is that: “In the beginning was sound.”
In other words, Barenboim is not only in a league with St John and Goethe but he is above them. Even if he fails to convince us with his arguments, by the fifth lecture this St John-Goethe-Barenboim line will be ingrained in the public.
The lectures are attended by celebrities (though Chicago was not as spectacular as London). The important aspect here is to demonstrate that celebrities flock to learn from the Master. It so happens that in some cases these celebrities are not interested in their own questions, in other cases they are more qualified to lecture rather than question the Maestro.
Barenboim’s cherry-picked West-Eastern Divan Orchestra - consisting of talented, young and privileged (that is educated) musicians from various Arab countries and Israel – is not only not a solution/help for the Israel/Palestinian conflict but it is an insult to all those Palestinian and Israeli people who have been working tirelessly for decades on the ground to bring about peace. Residing in Germany – as Barenboim does - and delivering occasional high profile, televised concert tours with the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra seems a long way from the realities of the conflict on the ground. Indeed; Barenboim’s attitude to Palestinians and Israelis is unacceptably patronising.
The theatrically staged five-city tour of the Reith Lectures and the televised tours with the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra will keep and raise Barenboim’s profile outside the world of professional music but they will contribute neither to profound scholarship on music nor, indeed, to peace in the Middle-East.
Re: Barenboim and music
I entirely agree with you on this. Lord Reith will be turning in his grave if he knows how much his lectures have been dumbed down in by this blatantly anti-intellectual and egocentric series.
It is clear that from an early age DB has known only one thing, namely a small subset of the totality of the rich musical experience that human race has created. Of course, he can't be blamed for this, since he didn't get to choose his own parents. By the time he was old enough to think for himself, most likely the brainwashing process was already complete. But his approach to musical performance (as described in one of the lectures, and abundantly clear to anybody who cares to listen to him, not in awe of a so-called genius, but with an open mind comparing him to a hundred other performers) is overwhelmingly anti-intellectual and egocentric. Personally I can usuually recognise a previously unheard DB performance of a familiar piece in 20 or 30 seconds, simply by his wilful disregard for anything in the music except "me, me, me".
Since almost from birth he has known only this small subset of "music", it is hardly surprising when he claims that any other ideas he has are derived from his knowledge of it. Is he really so wrapped up in his own little world as to think he is the first person in the world to discover the difference between power and strength, for example? Hasn't he ever read Sun Tzu, the Bible, the Quran, Machiavelli, or hundreds of others who worked it out long before him?
I have nothing against DB personally - he can do what he likes with his life so far as I'm concerned, and I'm quite happy to ignore both him and the gaggle of sycophantic groupies who worship him. But it's a measure of the dumbing down of the BBC that these almost content-free "lectures" were passed of as an important event, or as having anything in common with Reith's originaly objectives.
Maybe the BBC got a special discount offer here - lectures, Wagner-s-ring-in-a-day, Desert Island Discs, etc, etc. Never mind the quality, feel the value for money for the license fee payers, perhaps.
For the record, I have been studying, playing, and writing music for over 50 years. I don't need DB to play the Beethoven sonatas and Bach's Well Tempered Clavier for me, I can play them myself, thank you very much, and I do regularly play them.
Many years ago I went to a DB concert, and walked out after 15 minutes. I prefer to use my own mind to judge what I hear, not rely on the reputation of the performer. And I prefer to learn to what Bach, Beethoven, and Wagner had to say about the human condition through their music, not through a Barenboim-flavoured "lite" version.
Re: Barenboim and music
The Guest appears to protest too much on DB, Reith Lectures BBC and everything else with this enterprise including the musical selections by DB...To bad this hyper-criticism strangles his ability to be objective in a more true sense.
Re: Barenboim and music
> I entirely agree with you on this. Lord Reith will be
> turning in his grave if he knows how much his
> lectures have been dumbed down in by this blatantly
> anti-intellectual and egocentric series.
>
> It is clear that from an early age DB has known only
> one thing, namely a small subset of the totality of
> the rich musical experience that human race has
> created. Of course, he can't be blamed for this,
> since he didn't get to choose his own parents. By the
> time he was old enough to think for himself, most
> likely the brainwashing process was already complete.
> But his approach to musical performance (as described
> in one of the lectures, and abundantly clear to
> anybody who cares to listen to him, not in awe of a
> so-called genius, but with an open mind comparing him
> to a hundred other performers) is overwhelmingly
> anti-intellectual and egocentric. Personally I can
> usuually recognise a previously unheard DB
> performance of a familiar piece in 20 or 30 seconds,
> simply by his wilful disregard for anything in the
> music except "me, me, me".
>
> Since almost from birth he has known only this small
> subset of "music", it is hardly surprising when he
> claims that any other ideas he has are derived from
> his knowledge of it. Is he really so wrapped up in
> his own little world as to think he is the first
> person in the world to discover the difference
> between power and strength, for example? Hasn't he
> ever read Sun Tzu, the Bible, the Quran, Machiavelli,
> or hundreds of others who worked it out long before
> him?
>
> I have nothing against DB personally - he can do what
> he likes with his life so far as I'm concerned, and
> I'm quite happy to ignore both him and the gaggle of
> sycophantic groupies who worship him. But it's a
> measure of the dumbing down of the BBC that these
> almost content-free "lectures" were passed of as an
> important event, or as having anything in common with
> Reith's originaly objectives.
>
> Maybe the BBC got a special discount offer here -
> lectures, Wagner-s-ring-in-a-day, Desert Island
> Discs, etc, etc. Never mind the quality, feel the
> value for money for the license fee payers, perhaps.
>
> For the record, I have been studying, playing, and
> writing music for over 50 years. I don't need DB to
> play the Beethoven sonatas and Bach's Well Tempered
> Clavier for me, I can play them myself, thank you
> very much, and I do regularly play them.
>
> Many years ago I went to a DB concert, and walked out
> after 15 minutes. I prefer to use my own mind to
> judge what I hear, not rely on the reputation of the
> performer. And I prefer to learn to what Bach,
> Beethoven, and Wagner had to say about the human
> condition through their music, not through a
> Barenboim-flavoured "lite" version.
Re: Barenboim and music
Dear Guest - I just scanned your submission and I have a challenge for your 'statement' (quoted here),
"Of course, he can't be blamed for this, since he didn't get to choose his own parents."
This is news to me. How do you know this? Does this 'restriction' and the implied 'limitations-of-responsibility' associated with 'this' apply to anyone else?
If you perceive that as a global phenomenon, please explain how it is that by your implication I suffer the same disability and *didn't* get to choose my parents?
When you have explained 'this' to my understanding I may re-read your item with new interest, otherwise it seems condemned by an apriori I can not yet comprehend and concede too.
IMO - There is a grave danger in 'statements' like this that we reveal a flaw in our logic that disturbs all else that we have to say - indeed, argument may be rendered mute?
AlanD (who was of the opinion that fundamentally we choose virtually everything, but then my 'philosophy' may not be in your or Barenboim's 'genes':-)
Re: Barenboim and music
Hello unnamed guest
What a diatribe: the first I've seen on the forum that has taken up what the papers have already said: anti-intellectual, not up to the spirit of Lord Reith's initial idea!
I sort of agree, having listened for years to these lectures. But on the other hand some points stuck, sometimes out of his playing and his jokey points. After all, something said with lightness can sometimes illuminate.
As for the subset, I entirely agree. How can anyone be so restricted to the 18th - 19th century repertoire? I know he plays that mostly, and dear Guest, I'm sure your Bach is better. Mine is, though not for an audience.
As for your points about a 'package' it does seem that he crops up everywhere on the beeb at moment. 'Front Row' tonight. Desert Island Discs and more. But not a bad thing: we get insight into the music business, and the broadcasting one.
Corny I know, but is the Reith lectures turning into the Wreath lectures? The web forum would suggest that many people have really enjoyed these.
Dick Langham Smith
Re: Barenboim and music
Many years ago I went to a DB concert, and walked out after 15 minutes. I prefer to use my own mind to judge what I hear, not rely on the reputation of the performer. And I prefer to learn to what Bach, Beethoven, and Wagner had to say about the human condition through their music, not through a Barenboim-flavoured "lite" version.
Says a lot more about the complainer than the lecturer.
I too have listened (or read) the Reith lectures for years and suspect the Guest hasn't actually understood much of what DB actually said (maybe a prejudiced ear).
The understanding DB shows of the Human condition, the fact that DB is talking from a position of authority (His are debatably the greatest performances of Wagner at the moment)and his knowledge of the Middle East situation suggest the elitist view expressed by Guest are somewhat out of tune with both the purpose of the lectures and the needs of the global audience.
Re: Barenboim and music
Richard,
It matters not, how well or badly you play, or how well 'Guest' plays Bach. I don't play music at all and have never been taught to play, but I know what I like!
Surely this is the point. Most people can access music in some form and find solace in it? There are great practicioners like DB and others like...?
Considering the packaging of DB, yes it's like every other product today. Buy-one-get-one-free. It doesn't mean that you aren't getting a good deal. You are!
Re: Barenboim and music
Clearly Barenboim is not anti-intellectual. He thinks a lot about music and studies the theory as he said in one of his lectures. Personally, I enjoy listening to musicians talk about music. I still don't understand why people expect a classical musician to talk about Tibetan throat music, or Jazz for that matter.
Re: Barenboim and music
i meant Tim L's message
Re: Barenboim and music
i thought your message was very funny and wondered what you think of my worry. i admire d.b. but worry that i am excluded from being able to really enjoy music since i don't play it or compose it. i like listening to classical music but since listening to the first reith lecture i feel an inferior listener.(and i no longer enjoy listening as i used to)
Re: Barenboim and music
But we want a pop musician, a real musician, rather than that poseur Neil Young. Someone with street cred. like the Spice Girls would suite.
Re: Barenboim and music
I quite agree: the last thing we want is an ageing hippy like Neil Young. There's no such thing as a young hippy: young people have more sense than that. Gerri Haliwell (Ginger Spice) would be better, but I can't imagine that she would have much to say. It's difficult to think of someone I'd like to listen to for one lecture, never mind 5. What about Peter Hitchens.
Re: Barenboim and music
Excellent suggestion Mr./Dr./Professor L. – George Monbiot or Ken Livingstone could be invited to introduce the lectures.
Brian Eno or Laurie Anderson also come to mind as potential Reith Lecturers. I’d nominate Susan Rae or Eddie Mair as the hosts.
Re: Barenboim and music
Yes, I completely agree with you. I feel the same about archeologists, historians, and other exponents of so-called intellectual traditions. Why do these people concentrate on such a small area of human history and artefacts when they could research the masses of stuff that is available in the pst 30 years? Their views are limited, their horizons constrained, why should anyone pay any attention to these people whose world views are restricted by their tiny subject-matters and their personal histories. they should live and get out onto the streets.
Re: Barenboim and music
I can only agree with you antimuzak. Why should such a ridiculous intellectual as DB tell us his views? What pulpit does he come from? We clever members of the public can see through his narrow falsehoods. Indeed, perhaps the BBC will invite you, or perhaps 'Guest' to deliver the rebuttal next year.
I await this potential disaster with some trepidition.
Re: Barenboim and music
Neil Young would be a better candidate for this and he loves England. I suspect he'd even include an appearance on DID without charging the BBC. I've just saved Mr. Damazer about £10,000! The title of Mr. Young's lectures could be: 'Expecting To Fly'
All the R4 listeners would be writing to POTW and Feedback every week, expressing their delight so the listening figures for R4 would also rise sharply!
Re: Barenboim and music
Hello Agnes - I have concerns about your 'prophecy' (here quoted):
> "Barenboim’s profile outside the world of professional music but they will contribute neither to profound scholarship on music nor, indeed, to peace in the Middle-East." <
I don't believe that DB was/is pretending to be a great scholar - he is a thinking caring musician willing to help the world within the scope of his talents and intelligently 'composed' intentions. Great egos, Switzer/Ghandi etc., do their 'peace' in this way?
Under-qualified 'prophecy' is sometimes a common 'expletive' that, in condemning the 'good-intentions' of others - we fail to understand deeply enough or appreciate or help reveal the possible merits - truth or TIME seem the joint master prophetic revelation - in the meantime 'belief' is the foundation for our pragmatistic endeavours (DB's included?).
AlanD (thinking without some pragmatism is called procrastination:-)
Re: Barenboim and music
It is sad that you can ascribe mean-spirited motives to Daniel Barenboim. You say that David Barenboim thinks he is above St. John and Goethe! This is laughably pathetic. I don't think I heard him say this?
I doubt that you have ever visited Israel, or Palestine. Nor will you have witnessed first-hand the hatred of Jews and Arabs and their terrible consequences. (These hatreds are not accidental; they appear fully justified to both sides.)
Anyone who works to bridge this seemingly impossible gulf deserves my respect. Daniel Barenboim, as you rightly acknowledge, is a magnificent musician; he does not need to risk his life in helping to bridge the divide. He is a true hero of mine and I will explain why.
I have always been lukewarm to Wagner, because of his anti-Semitism and his association with Nazism. It is a tribute to Daniel Barenboim, as a Jew, that he can overlook these personal defects of Wagner to admire the magnificence and originality of his music.
His lectures are about how music can help us overcome our hatred and can help us express our emotions without violence. I hope you can enjoy my hero's music in peace and tranquillity.
Re: Barenboim and music
Until the WORD has been uttered, there is nothing. Without SOUND there is no WORD.
Re: Barenboim and music
> Until the WORD has been uttered, there is nothing.
> Without SOUND there is no WORD.
Hello Frank - this is not quite true - I would re-write (a hope a little poetic licence permitted:-)
Until the WORD is uttered, 'nothing' is heard.
Without SOUND, there is no 'audible' word.
Pre-emanating the audible, 'thought' is preferred.
Sometimes, in despair is uttered, an un-thinking-word.
Note - the opposite of thinking is fatking - dieticians survive on this little publicised truth?
AlanD (sometimes, very rarely, 'does' the un-thinkable:-)