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I would be interested to see the response from the new bright young minds to a thread I started several years ago on this forum - can they come up with something new? - or is it as I suspect: they will take previous responses & rearrange same as if they are the originators!
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What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
I would be interested to see the response from the new bright young minds to a thread I started several years ago on this forum- can they come up with something new?- or is it as I suspect- they will take previous responses & rearrange same as if they are the originators!- don't feel bad- all do it- as did Einstein, Feynman etc etc. Regards, Neil.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
heres my view on the glass half full of water or half empty? well the answer is it depends if it was filled up to start with or if it was empty to begin with. so for the chicken and the egg i would guess u would need to look at the history of both. maybe the egg was grown from a plant to give birth to the chicken. or the chicken is simply breaded for meat and along came the cock to produce an egg aswell?
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Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
...for what it's worth
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Chicken- read genesis.
Birth as we know it didn't happen until later.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
They've got no horns and they've got no tail
They don't even know of our existence
Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold
That lies in the deep distance, he clucked
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Any room for the response from a very dull, old mind?
As you correctly point out in Post No. 9, eggs cannot lay themselves, the requirement for parents to perform this duty being glaringly obvious. This, however, leads to the suspicion that you have been leading us all down the garden path, rather than leaving us to cross the road by ourselves, since there is now no sign of the chicken, but, rather, an anonymous "parent" figure. Does not a rewording of the Thread title seem in order, or are the responses to your question doomed to meander aimlessly like .... well, like some headless chicken? I think we should be told.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
HA-HA-HA- very good- the term parents in this case refers to rooster & hen specifically- smart rs!. Kind regards, Neil.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
So there you have it you just proved that the carer came first then the egg with the chicken inside and more than a few requests for a DNA test before papa drops a penny for juniors education fund. (see Chenobyl)
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
'If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you always got'. Maybe the reason you always get rehashed versions of previous answers is becaues you keep asking the same question to the same (type of/range of) people. What if you tried changing the question to "What came first, the amoeba or the amoeba?"? Would tht make any more or any less sense? "The amoeba" would seem to be the only (logical) answer to that one, but would "I don't know" or "What difference does it make, I'm just happy we've got chickens and eggs" or "God knows" or even "Forty two" be any more 'enlightening' answers?
Which answer someone chooses to give may tell you something about the person giving the answer but it's not going to leave you any the wiser about whether the chicken or the egg came first, so maybe rather than trying to come up with the 'complete answer to everything' by setting out from totally subjective unknowables (at this time at least), we should start off from what we do know and see where we can build to.
So what do we really know? When it comes right down to it I suppose that Descartes summed up everything that we can ever really know in one short sentence - I think, therefore I am. Do we really know that chickens 'are'? Do we really know that eggs 'are'? How do I know that the entire universe isn't a figment of my imagination that exists only in my head (whatever and wherever 'my head' might be)? Once again we seem to have strayed into an abyss of the completely unknowable, so I guess that to make any progress on this line of thinking we have to make one fairly significant and yet unverifiable assumption, and that is to assume that the universe and everything in it really does exist.
So, assuming that the universe really does exist, let's consider what we really know on the chicken and egg front - we know we've got chicken and we know we've got eggs, so what else do we know that may be relevant? Well, we know we've got roosters, and I suppose it's fairly safe to assume that the first egg didn't come from a rooster, but can we assume that the first rooster came from an egg? Where else could a rooster come from? Could it have come from a 'god-type-thing'? If it did, then who cares whether the chicken came before the egg or whether the egg came before the rooster coz obviously the god-type-thing came first of all, so maybe the best question to ask is "What came first, the chicken or the god?",
and the answer to that one is quite obviously "FORTY TWO!".
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Hmmmm- well done- but the reason this question is asked is to clarify whether a god thing came 1st or whether evolution is the reason- it seems as if you don,t know, don,t care- neither it seems does anyother hooman(not relevant?) to your selfish animal existence?. Regards, Neil.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
I don't see what God and evolution have to do with this question which can only be viewed in one of two ways.
1. Literal - in which case the egg came long before chickens.
2. Logical symbolism - in which case it represents a closed loop ; A leads to B leads to A leads to B leads to A etc.
This is a logical paradox and has no solution.
As I assume you intend the latter, then it clearly bears no comparison with the idea of a universe created by a god, which is a one off A leads to B assertion and as such is open to consideration, investigation, argument.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
AHH go & commit yourself- the question is did the egg come 1st(ie from elements not needing a God, & turned out to be a chicken), or did the rooster & hen come 1st,ie created by God , & laid an egg- same to this day- this question is intended to answer whether evolution & natural selection are true or whether a deity made everything, or is there another answer?. A logical paradox!!!?- just ain't true!. I think you have clearly left ENTROPY out of the picture- for obvious reasons!. Regards, Neil.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
I can't help feeling that it would have been helpful if you had just asked the question clearly in the first place without resorting to fuzzy euphamisms that don't really serve the purpose which you seem to intend...
But of course, failure to clearly define your parameters leaves you free to change the course of your argument at whim. Handy!
Personally, I don't see what purpose God serves as a means to explain the existence of the Universe (or chickens). You are just left having then to explain the existence of God.
Interestingly, the same is true of the Big Bang, or any other mechanism that one might posit.
Thus the existence of anything at all is indeed a logical paradox.
As for entropy;
Chickens, or any other form of life merely borrow order from chaos at a considerable expense of energy. We and they are merely eddies in the general entropic flow.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Congratulations- this is one of the best answers I have seen(to my muddled mind)- cheers,Neil.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Answer = The Egg
It's not a philosophical question. It's plain old boring logic and biology. The chicken being a species that has evolved from some other creature you could describe as a proto-chicken.
At some point in time a proto-chicken laid an egg that hatched a chicken. This chicken through chance or through superior adaptive capabilities went on to be more successful than its proto-chicken peers.. and went on to form the race of chickens. Eventually, the proto-chickens were no more, leaving only chickens
Anyway. This still means the answer is egg
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
So there you have it you just proved that the carer ("proto-chicken") came first then the egg with the chicken inside and more than a few requests for a DNA test before papa drops a penny for juniors education fund. (see Chenobyl)
I said it before you but without your smartie pants clever words so I should win not you!!
...but proto-chicken might be more chicken than the egg it hatched and cooked it for three minutes with toasted soldiers. No, no, no I didn't mean that last bit.
...but a do like a dippy eggy ...mmm
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
So there you have it you just proved that the carer ("proto-chicken") came first then the egg with the chicken inside and more than a few requests for a DNA test before papa drops a penny for juniors education fund. (see Chenobyl)I said it before you but without your smartie pants clever words so I should win not you!!
...but proto-chicken might be more chicken than the egg it hatched and cooked it for three minutes with toasted soldiers. No, no, no I didn't mean that last bit.
...but a do like a dippy eggy ...mmm
If the egg had hatched would you still boil it ?
Wouldn't that be a chick you're boiling?
hatching? laying?
dippy chick chick ...mmm?
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Well, I'm glad we sorted that out.
Even as a non-biologist (only A-Level, and badly), I agree.
It is most likely to be the egg first, or otherwise the proto-chicken would have had to have many thousands (millions/billions/trillions...?) of mutations during its short lifespan to become a chicken. It is more likely the single ova had a mutation, since this would only require a very few sequence alterations to produce an egg, and therefore a chicken.
Will I be the last post, or will there be other answers? Mine is just a re-stating as it is...
Thanks,
Andrew J Cochran
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
this is the great imponderable. Why waste time trying to fathom it out ?
It is like argueing ' why were we born at all ? @'
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
wasting time is what we do as a species, it's how we got to here
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
The Theory of Evolution says that species change over time in the process of evolution. Since DNA can be modified only before birth, a mutation must have taken place at conception or within an egg such that an animal similar to a chicken, but not a chicken, laid the first chicken egg.
However, a mutation in one individual is not normally considered a new species. A speciation event involves the separation of one population from its parent population, so that interbreeding ceases; this is the process whereby domesticated animals are genetically separated from their wild forebears. The whole separated group can then be recognized as a new species.
The modern chicken was believed to have descended from another closely related species of birds, the red junglefowl, but recently discovered genetic evidence suggests that the modern domestic chicken is a hybrid descendant of both the red junglefowl and the grey junglefowl. Assuming the evidence bears out, a hybrid is a compelling scenario that the egg came before the chicken.
either way both taste bloomin good cooked and between two slices of bread and butter with salt n peppar :-)
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
I honestly don't know why hooman believers in the THEORY of evolution- try to beat down other hoomans who may have a different belief- in all cases Nothing is proven as to what is true at this TIME- & vice-versa- I have an open mind(ever since a fanatical scientist put a colt 45 to my right ear & pulled the trigger)- luckily the bullet deflected back out & took the mad scientist out- to say that chickens are finger licking tasty is a copout-& does not answer anything. as to evolution, the foxes who eat my chickens do not turn into chickens, & do not even evolve into half fox- half chicken- so there!. Kind regards from an open minded Neil.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
not to be confused with an open box of quality street
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Samantha. You are really asking about the first cause, which is the most difficult question in the world to answer. Some people consider there is no answer, even in principle.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
aren't you mixing your threads?
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
if you get all crossed up you'll do your nut
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Tap and die?
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
I would think the tap came first then the die.
You would almost have to cut the tap with a file and then cut the die with the tap. You would file, the oil, or air hardening steel, with a file, or stone that must have come first. Then you could harden the tap, and cut the die, and then harden the die.
The egg is obviously a biological weapon of some kind. To slow the enemy down for nine months, while they are fostering some kind of small living organism in their body. An organism that they do not know, if they should treat nicely or just cut out.
All while the other side was building up long range ballistic missile capabilities.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
is that from scripture?
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
No Dave from the depths of my very sick and twisted mind. Ha-ha.
Seemed like something mankind would come up with and implement.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
...The egg is obviously a biological weapon of some kind. To slow the enemy down for nine months,...
WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN? I can fully accept and not judge a sick and twisted mind but coherence might still be nice?
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN? I can fully accept and not judge a sick and twisted mind but coherence might still be nice?
WHAT... HOW... ...are you just being silly?
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
In Wars man, especially English men, have been known to implement and use small, living organisms, parasites, capable of severely crippling or killing their enemy.
Often a long on going sickness is better then one that just kills. It mentally destroys the other army or other country.
I was thinking, that the egg planted in a persons stomach, and it just starts growing, seems like a biological weapon that the sick minds of war would create.
If at the time of the attack on a fictitious planet, where only men existed, and never grew old, this occurred. It would certainly be a demoralizing weapon.
Yes I was acting silly, like the subject of the chicken or the egg is silly.
I just thought it would make a great science fiction story. A planet where everyone never grew old. And suddenly this biological weapon is introduced and the rest is history.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Does this by any chance have the noble distinction of being both sexist and racist?
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Its a good job you don't mind spilingl your open mind all over this mess.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
neither they are both manifestations of energy manifesting in different ways.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
you do for language what something does for something
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
ok but i still believe the egg came first for the same reasons wikipedia states...
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
qwertyuiop?
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
I could ask either the chicken or the egg because both are in a very long historical chain of evelotion from the basic living cell of any kind of orgasm. Perhaps that initial orgasm was just pure thought and why was it singular as it is supposed to be by traditional thinking. Perhaps the thought expressed itself in an infinite possibility of being.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Good cluck
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Shouldn't that be "Which came first"?
Perhaps the race isn't over yet so we don't know.
Perhaps the loser will be the more argumentative one, who fritters away the opportunity to make progress when it's his turn.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
It seems the Creation believers have the sensible answers
The Evolution believers are clueless..
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Sorry TimN
You plainly do not have the faintest idea how evolution works. Do you normally comment in such a way on a subject you don't understand?
For what it is worth, and this is a really silly and childish question, the egg was first because the creatures that preceded chickens developed external sexual reproduction using an egg. It is very simple.
Cheesemaker
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
I do educate me then, with some proof, not mere suppositions
So male and female had to evolve randomly but at the same time? Come on, give us a break
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
TimN
As I said, you appear to enjoy belittling something you plainly don't understand. Do you think that is an honest thing to do ?
It is not my job to educate you, that is your own responsibility. But there are plenty of resources our there.
However, I fear that you won't learn or accept something that goes against your religiously motivated bias. Perhaps you can prove me wrong.
Cheesemaker
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
You are missing the point befuddled- I KNOW the answer- wasn't proto anything but a fully formed male & female chicken- the Bible says so- & only a fool does not believe- so you are a fool-the fossil record shows only fully formed chicken remains- but the point here is the date of fossilisation- did some evil scientist inter the skeleton from a kentucky fried to obfuscate the issue!- more than likely!,. We may know the answer some day, but in the meantime pray to God for enlightenment- & if that don't work coz you are too dense, then, pray,pray,pray again! Kind regards, Neil.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Why bother being enlightened in this world? ...save it for the next.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Your answer is typical of can't think morons- the Bible says if you don,t repent in this life & obey God- there won't be a next world- or if there is, according to a major religion- you will definirely be ENLIGHTENED for ever in purgatory. So you disbeleiver, repent now - give away all your worldly wealth to the deserving(my address enclosed), & live what remains of your miserable existence in penury- it will be worth it!. Kind regards,Neil.
Re: What came first- the chicken or the egg?.
Good grief Neil, my putative Philosophical Protagonist !!
I'm not sure what to make of this little conundrum.
Would " ... can't think morons ... " not be a more suitable description of those sad individuals who slavishly and unquestioningly accept what " ... the Bible says ... " ?
Chickens and eggs seem a little less important in the wake of such momentous, mind-bending, musings as have been thrust upon us by the direction taken by your initially frivolous-seeming query !!