Debate: Judging right or wrong

Lets go back to the philosophy of Annie Besant, although having strange religious views, was very interested in gaining independence for a number of countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Besant

You will note she was a supporter of Irish Independence, The Home Rule League was established on 18th November 1873, as link shows, but not location.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Rule_League

However this link mentions it was in Dublin, Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Neale_McKenna

On 18th Nov. 1873 in Dublin, the sun rose at 07:37:31am, while Alnilam set just over 4 minutes before, however i feel this is an intended alignment.

Annie Besant was also heavily involved in "The Home Rule Movement" in India, as this link denotes:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Rule_Movement

The Esoteric philosophy of the Seven Rays or Heavens is displayed on the Home Rule Flag, you will note it has one seven pointed star, and 7 five pointed stars!

The Flag of Bangladesh is a red disc on a green field, the red disc is a socialist symbol of the rising Sun of Independence after the dark night of a blood-drenched struggle, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Bangladesh

The flag was adopted on 17th January 1972, as it is symbolic of the Sun, perhaps sunset in the location of Dhaka is symbolic of the split with Pakistan.

On 17 January 1972 the Sun set at 17:29:39pm at the location of Dhaka, as it set in the West, Sirius was rising in the East along the Horizon.....any can see this if you have an astronomy programme!

Bangladesh is most interesting in this study of governments that use Sirius and Alnilam to align their country to astrology.

If you look to the right of link below you will get the date of Independence Declared, being 26th March 1971, and Victory Day is celebrated on 16th December 1971.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh

The alignments featured below, are from the Capital, Dhaka.

On Friday 26th March 1971, in Dhaka using the midnight day marker, we find Sirius setting along the horizon in the West, within the four minutes of time, astrology margin.....find an astromoner to dispute this!

On Thursday 16th December 1971 in Dhaka was a very special day in that location, for it is marked at midnight and the Egyptian day marker being sunrise!

At midnight Alnilam, Belt of Orion was culminating, within the four minute margin!

At sunrise being 06:37:04am, if we look on an astronomy programme along the horizon to the West, we find Sirius setting, within the four minute margin, astronomers will not dispute this!

In the next section we will examine the flag of Bangladesh, all this being observations not judgements!

It is here, that non-astronomers will see that location is essential, you will note that in Bombay/Mumbai on 29-30th Dec. 1885, using the midnight day marker, during the first Indian National Congress that Alnilam, Belt of Orion was culminating in the centre of the sky.

When the Muslim Leaque was started, in Dhaka, Bengal, which is now Bangladesh, (23*N43'23", 90*E24'31"), it seems that the midnight day starter was used again, using 30th December 1906, but don't expect Alnilam culminating in the centre of the sky as it is a different location.

The Muslim League eventually gained independence for Pakistan and Bangladesh, please note i'm making observations not judgements!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_League

At the location of Dhaka, Bengal/Bangladesh at midnight, on 30th December 1906, Sirius was culminating in the centre of the sky, straight up from South on an astronomy programme, within the four minutes of time, astrologers margin.

Perhaps the reason for this can be found in the Quran, please scroll down link to "053:049, And he is the Lord of Sirius".

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Quran_(Progressive_Muslims_Organization)/53

You will note that Allan Octavian Hume was a "free-thinker" about religion, and was a founding member of the Indian National Congress, by the above link on the previous thread!

OK, lets move on to the below link:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_National_Congress

The first session of the Indian National Congress was held in Bombay, from 28-31st December 1885.

Bombay is now called "Mumbai", 18*N58'30", 72*E49'33".

Please find an astronomer to dispute the following within the astrologers margin of four minutes of time!

The middle two dates are of interest at the modern start of the day, being midnight or 00:00am, on 29th and 30th Dec. 1885.

At midnight on 29th Dec. 1885, Alnilam, centre star of Belt of Orion and Osiris star is culminating, straight up from South within 2 mins. 59 secs....within astrologers margin!

At midnight on 30th Dec. 1885, at location, Alnilam culminates within 56 sec.!

The middle dates of the first Session of the Indian National Congress were aligned to Alnilam, by location and date, by the modern way of calcalating the day, by midnight!

Obviously not all in India followed Hinduism, therefore there would be Muslim break-away independence movements that will be discussed in the next thread section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Hinduism

In the next section i will be looking at Allan Octavian Hume, featured below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Octavian_Hume

He was one of the founders of the Indian National Congress, please scroll down link to "Theosophy".

There is no doubt that J.K. Rowling is interested in political history, human rights and historical women's suffrage movements, i doubt if she has no knowledge of the associations made in vegetarian restaurants in London during the 1880's. This could have inspired her to write her famous books on magic and Harry Potter!

The Order of the Phoenix, is symbolic of masonic associations, like the one below:-

http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/main/

There have been many who have tried to understand what inspired J.K. Rowling to write her books as featured below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Harry_Potter

I hope the below link will be allowed, as comments can be left, like a forum, hopefully the B.B.C. will bend the rules a little!

However i feel this link is nearer to the truth:-

http://thehogshead.org/fabian-society-post-160/

Many of the writers of the late 19th century of childrens magic books show links to the Theosophists, like L. Frank Baum (Wizard of Oz), please scroll down link to "Religious":-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Frank_Baum

The next writer of childrens books that i would like to examine can wait, as firstly we must examine Amnesty International that is connected....Please note i'm not knocking!

Amnesty International exists because English Labour Lawyer Peter Benenson read of two Portuguese students that had been sentenced to seven years of imprisonment for having drunk a toast to liberty.

His thoughts on this was published in The Observer newspaper, on 28th May 1961.

The dictator of Portugal at that time was Antonio de Oliveira Salazar, who founded the "New State", called "Estado Novo", on 28th May 1926, obviously the newspaper article had made use of the anniversary!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estado_Novo_(Portugal))

Any astronomer can check this, as it seems that astrology was used in the foundation of Estado Novo, in Lisbon on 28th May 1926.

Ancient Greek start of day used being sunset on 27th May 1926 being 20:46:14pm, Alnilam, Belt of Orion setting in the West, along the horizon within a few seconds of the Sun.

Question:-

What writer of childrens stories worked as a researcher and bilingual secretary for Amnesty International?

This would require knowledge of origins of human rights organizations such as the Fabian Society and associated groups!

Please note i'm not attacking C.S. Lewis, but researching were he found material for his books, like many of us he was one of my favourite authors as a child!

Another member of the "Inklings" was Owen Barfield, who was deeply interested in Anthroposophy, links below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Barfield

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy

We may look further at J.R.R. Tolkien, and the Lord of the Rings, as he was also an Inkling, was the Eye of Sauron, the Eye of Providence/eye of Horus?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eyeofsauron.jpg

Was the Fellowship of the Ring in any way connected to the Fellowship of the Rosy Cross?

I must admit that i found this link interesting about the "Door of Moria"

http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/ring.html

To further explore C. S. Lewis, we would have to look at the "Inklings", featured below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inklings

Charles Williams was a member featured below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Williams_(UK_writer))

He had been a member of the Salvator Mundi Temple of The Fellowship of the Rosy Cross.

The Rosicrucian Cosmo Conception involves 7 Cosmic Planes:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rosicrucian_Cosmo-Conception

All these groups are akin to the Golden Dawn:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellowship_of_the_Rosy_Cross

Indeed when Max Heindel set up the Constitution of The Rosicrucian's in the United States, it was in Seattle this happened on 8th August 1909, Seattle is 47*N37'35", 122*W19'59".

The Sun rose on that day and location at 05:00:13am, also rising in the East along the horizon was Sirius within 54 seconds, well within the astrologers margin......how very Egyptian....astronomers won't dispute this!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rosicrucian_Fellowship

Perhaps C.S. Lewis while having a beer with Charles Williams at The Eagle and Child pub found interesting material for his Narnia books?

Please note i have never found that C.S.Lewis belonged to any strange society, so we must look to who he had a beer with....clue!.... Very like who you eat dinner with!

Connections....."The seven Heavens of the medieval Cosmos!

The Seven Rays?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_rays

Edith Nesbit did write other stories that may have symbolic references attached, one that springs to mind is "The Story of the Amulet" featured below :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_the_Amulet

Generally i wouldn't look for symbolic meaning in childrens books, however a documentary by the B.B.C. about C.S. Lewis did make me think harder about story telling symbolism.

The documentary argued that Lewis had secretly constructed the Chronicles of Narnia out of the imagery associated with the seven heavens of the medieval cosmos!

http://www.planetnarnia.com/

Obviously as it is an area that i study, i was fascinated, and saw the connections!

Perhaps there are other children books that are a story within a story......we will look at this in the next thread section!

Mark Mason Hall that housed the Isis-Urania Temple of the Golden Dawn no longer exists, it was pulled down, but it was in Great Queens Street, London, in the same street as Freemasons Hall, London :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasons%27_Hall,_London

Don't confuse with the other Mark Mason Hall in St. James St. London, that still exists:-

www.markmasonshall.com/

The Golden Dawn Temple was chartered by Freemasons Hall on 1st March 1888, as shown below:-

http://www.llewellyn.com/encyclopedia/article/35

As any astronomer will know, the Sun rose on that day in London at 06:50:25am, while Alnilam, Belt of Orion, star of Osiris was within four minutes of being exactly aligned to the Nadir, straight down from North on any astronomy programme.

The Theosophists chose sunset, the Golden Dawn chose sunrise, other than that the alignment is the same!

Generally if astrology is used to mark a day, then it will be either sunset midnight or sunrise.

The foundation act of the Theosophical Society is known by a hand written letter, shown on link:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophical_Society

The letter is shown on this link:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St-1ata.jpg

Please use mouse to click anywhere on hand written page to make larger, it may take a few goes.

The date is Wednesday evening 8th Sept 1875 in New York.

Therefore i would be looking at Sunset on this date, which happened at 18:16:48pm, by using an astronomy programme, while Alnilam (Osiris Star) was within four minutes of being exact on the Nadir, straight down from North.

This is common, however so what? But many of the same alignments crop up in the emerging independence parties in India which is interesting, i'll get around to showing this soon.

Sometimes i try to imagine a Golden Dawn Egyptian Magic ritual while putting the personalities in place, i have no problem placing Aleister Crowley in this imagined ritual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley

However i have great difficulty placing other members, lets try this on you, to set the scene to imagine a ritual i will help with a few moderate clips from the film "Eyes Wide Shut", please watch to get the imagination juices going:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THNzuF33tZoe
[Moderator: please note the OU is not reponsible for the content external websites - this clip is from an 18 rated movie]

Now imagine a female helping with the ritual, she is dressed in ceremonial Egyptian clothes, but you can't see her face as she wears a mask of Anubis.....featured below:-

http://www.whshop.com/acatalog/info_0058figur.html

At the end of the ritual she removes the mask.......i don't know who you were expecting, but i doubt you would expect to see E. Nesbit, the author of "The Railway Children?????!!!

Please scroll down link to "Known Members" and click on E. Nesbit....and yes she was a member of The Fabian Society too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn

Annie Besant was a member of The Fabian Society, become pesident of the Theosophical Society, and was influencial in Co-Freemasonry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Besant

Many Theosophist's were vegetarian, so would meet in vegetarian restaurants in the 1880's, so would meet with Gandhi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophical_Order_of_Service

As you can see promoting vegetarianism.

This link mentions Gandhi being introduced to Madame Blavatsky and Annie Besant...i wonder if Gandhi's life would have been different if he hadn't been vegetarian?

http://www.ivu.org/news/evu/other/gandhi1.html

Co-freemasonry is similiar to The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, as it has interest in magic, please scroll down to "Ceremonial and Inner Energies" on co-freemason link:-

http://comasonic.net/

It will be noted that Edward Carpenter was involved with The Independent Labour Party's first conference, in Bradford, Yorkshire, U.K., 53*N47', 01*W45', on 14th January 1893.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Labour_Party

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/TUcarpenter.htm

His interest in Sun cults may have been incorperated in the date, as at location, the Sun set at 16:08:39pm, while Alnilam, star of Osiris was rising along the horizon in the East!

I have no idea of George Bernard Shaw's philosophy regarding religious beliefs, however it has to be noted that there were two important women in his life that had strange beliefs.

Annie Horniman helped him a great deal in his career, and she was a member of The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, a magical society that practiced ritual magic, Harry Potter style!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Horniman

Florence Farr had been a mistress of George Bernard Shaw, and she too had been a member of The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Farr

Actually H.G.Wells isn't the person i was thinking about, what i have to say may be an eye opener, a lot of this group had strange beliefs, they were very creative people that were concerned with peoples rights.

I was thinking of Edward Carpenter, who had been a guest and speaker for the Theosophical Society on his subject of Sun worship:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Carpenter

http://www.edwardcarpenter.net/ecpcc3.htm

http://www.edwardcarpenter.net/ecpcc2.htm

From his book Pagan and Christian Creeds, although i would have to disagree with him with his comments that many pagan gods were born on or near Christmas Day, i don't even think Christ was born on Christmas day!

This is confusing as many pagan gods were allegedly born near the end of the year, however in many countries in ancient times, the year ended in the Summer therefore the Osiris myth and birth is regarded to be in the Summer a few days before the end of the year!

It was the Emperor Aurelian that changed Osiris dates to the end of the Julian year because of conflict over religion in the Roman Empire, it was an effort to have standard days, even though his religion was the Sun god Sol Invictus, please scroll down to "Religious Reform on link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurelian

Now the philosophy of the Fabian Society was similiar to Gandhi, not advocating big battles, but tactics of harassment and attrition, notable tactics of the Roman general Quintus FABIUS Maximus, that the Fabian Society is named after!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Society

Who among the early stars of the Fabian Society had an interest in Sun Worship, and the astrology, myths and legends of ancient cults and wrote books on the subject in relation to Christian beliefs showing what was common to all religions?

He was also a vegetarian!

Before we go on, lets look at a date that The Vegetarian Federal Union was established, being 1st Oct 1889 in London:-

http://www.ivu.org/history/vfu/constitution.html

Please check with an astronomer, you will find that the Sun rose at 06:05:44am in London, within a four minute margin, you will find Sirius culminating, straight up from South, in the middle of the sky on an astronomy programme.....perhaps the philosophy and astrology of the ancient Pythagoreans was used?

Again please note i'm explaining, not knocking!

Hi Meehta Eyta,

Thank you for your comments, yes i will talk about Henry S. Salt, as he had a big effect on Gandhi's emerging philosophy, as he had written a book on Henry David Thoreau.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Stephens_Salt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_David_Thoreau

http://www.henrysalt.co.uk/intro.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

Although Gandhi couldn't always stop violence, i must say that i liked his principles, which is my opinion.

During the height of the British Empire there were a lot of social reformers that didn't agree with our position in India, and this led to an alliance between those interested and had sympathy for Indian mysticism, and a great interest in the Hindu religion, and those social reformers that thought having an empire in India was wrong!

Strangely enough, much that helped Gandhi, was discussed in the vegetarian restaurants of London in the 1880's.

Into this mix, came the Fabians,many were vegetarians which i will discuss soon, however for the moment i will leave this link:-

http://www.suite101.com/articles.cfm/british_history/33737

We are very shy here!

Please note i am explaining not knocking!

The Indian male was Gandhi, and the type of restaurant was "Vegetarian".

Firstly, how did the Vegetarian Society have a philosophy when it was first formed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian_Society

You will note it was founded on 30th September 1847, in Ramsgate, Kent, U.K., 51*N20', 01*E26'.

Sunrise at Ramsgate happened at 06:03:01am on that day while Sirius was culminating, straight up from South, in middle of sky, within the four minute astrologers margin....why would they have a Greek/Egyptian Philosophy when they started?

The answer is that the Pythagoreans were Vegetarians, please read below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagoreanism

Now the Pythagoreans were interested in two symbols, one featured above is "The Monad", and this symbol is still used in astrology and astronomy to represent the "Sun".

Another symbol they used was a Pentagram, and in esoteric philosophy this symbol can only be either Venus....or SIRIUS!

But it wasn't only Pythagoreans that visited vegetarian restaurants in the 1880's.....who else did?

Hi Pure Guess,

I'll give you another clue...

As the leaves fell during the Autumn of Terror, when Jack the Ripper lurked in the shadows, a 18 year old diminutive male from India arrived in London to study law, his mother told him not to eat certain foods, so he had to visit special restaurants, the people he met there would change his whole life philosophy....so what type of restaurant was it?

Question:-

What type of restaurant in London in the 1880's would you have to go to, to rub shoulders with political social reformers, coupled with those interested with esoteric religious philosophy?

Hi William,

I'm sorry, i thought you knew more than you seem to with astronomy, Sirius is the brightest star in the night sky in Canis Major, and rising and setting is an astronomy term, stars rise at a location, and set like the Sun, perhaps the seal of New Hampshire will give you a clue, showing the rising sun at location.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seal_of_New_Hampshire.svg

My point is there are many different religions in the world, not just the Evangelist point of view, and many leaders of religion have told us to follow one religion, while have been following another, there are no straight lines in religion.

Archaeoastronomy can be contraversial, today the rising Sun illuminates the inner chamber of Newgrange, Ireland, only at the Winter Solstice, but was that the case when it was built?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeoastronomy

Probably not, we are not sure about the rotation of the Earth before 1500AD, but are fairly sure after this date, and this effects astronomy programmes, please read:-

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhelp/deltaT.html

However in religious circles understanding how the ancients used the stars has gone on for many centuries.

I never said i condemn George Washington for using astrology, but is an interesting side of history, as for the Egyptian side of masonry.....for some groups this is contraversial even in masonic circles, please read link, where another mason doesn't agree with the heavyweight mason Albert Pike:-

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/albert_pike.html

In all i try to open all aspects of religion, i only condemn when people die, by religious means in the modern world, however our history is full of killing people over religion, i'm not keen on strong religious views, but fascinated by them.

I'm not knocking George Washington, but i wonder how he interpreted God?

It looks likely that there was a hermetic interpretation, please read link and quote:-

"After holding several meeting later in 1777 to further discuss this proposition, the group met once again in Williamsburg on June 23rd 1778. Before that meeting, the position of Grand Master had been offered to George Washington, who declined,(probably as he was a very busy man during this period, my note)

John Blair Jr. was elected as the first Grand Master on 13th Oct 1778, thus creating the Grand Lodge of Virginia, being the first Grand Lodge in America.

http://williamsburgmasons.com/portal/Home/OurHistory/tabid/62/Default.aspx

and:-

http://www.grandlodgeofvirginia.org/history/

The Capital of Virginia was moved to Richmond on 18th April 1780.

Williamsburg, Virginia is 37*N16'30", 76*W42'30", and on 13th Oct. 1778, by using an astronomy programme we find Sirius rising in the East at midnight (modern day marker).

Obviously this date has significance, being the date that Jacques de Molay was arrested, please scroll down to "Downfall" on link:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_Molay

George Washington probably did have a black sense of humour, as he used the same date laying the corner stone of the White House in 1792:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House

At the location of the White House on 13th Oct 1792, at midnight....Sirius is rising, and day marking in this fashion is common.

I'm not against any interpretation of God, but perhaps Washington's interpretation was Isis or Osiris?

Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong

...Does it not contain some truth?

...about as much as you want it to

success is an arbitery judgement, so is right and wrong

there are only earthly judges, valid or not