Divine Women: Discussion Hub

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We're inviting you to get involved the controversial debates surrounding women in religion. To help you make an informed argument, our Open University experts have written exclusive articles and travelled around the UK to interview leading female religious figures for a series of quick, fascinating videos. With all the facts laid out, you can then vote in our polls and share your views using the comments facility.

To kick-start the debate, vote in our overall series poll right now and use the comments facility on this page to share your views on this particular question. Then check out the latest debate below as they're published and get stuck in!

Have women been marginalised by religion?

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Does the term God in Christianity include the female?

Jill Leigh

11 Jun 201212:01

I thought I would make a simple observation concerning whether God and /or the Holy Spirit have an element of the feminine. This is just a lay person's observation, but I think the programme was more about the way religion has portrays women in the majority of cases. The vast majority of women (in this survey) feel Christianity exclude women.

While, of course it is true that the bible says many things and some are conflicting - not unlike many other religious books. Women have and continue to be seen by many of the world's religious leaders, as not quite as good as men. Furthermore, religion is a strong force affecting women and 'minority' groups and this has had a detrimental effect on women and other 'minority' groups in the past as well as the future. Religious writings and relgious leaders are frequently quoted as authoritative commentators on what is right and what is wrong about women/ethnic minorites/LGBT communities etc. and what women ought to be allowed to do and be.

For example women in arabic countires are denied access to medical treatments that men have as a right. Women in this country in the past were excluded from education.

Christianity has a record of ignoring fundemental human rights whether or not some of the scriptures make conflicting statements about women and 'minority' groups.

This is what someone wrote i

Stuart Alek

08 Oct 201209:57

This is what someone wrote i was wondering if it was true. And if so wouldnt god be evil?

NO NOT REALLY...! You don't seem to read the Bible!

Among the Priestly Bible writers, Moses admits to be the meekest man on the Earth. Not even Hitler was that meek!

Numbers 12:3 Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth* (*No false modesty!).

The Bible writers say that this Holy and meek â€œLAW GIVERâ€ stabbed in the back an Egyptian foreman because he was rough on the Jews! Moses had to run away from Egypt to the kingdom of Midi-an. 40 Bible years later he returns to Egypt to take over the instantaneous leadership of 2,000,000 Israelis so they can be taken to the Promised Land of Palestine. There is not a trace of historical evidence that any of these stories ever took place, or that Moses ever existed outside of the Bible!
(External website removed by OpenLearn Moderator 09.10.12)

The Mother and Child Images

Geoffrey Hudson

26 Apr 201211:02

I was intrigued by the second episode in which the mother and child were shown in the same context as the women apparently leading worship, one of whom seems to be wearing no head covering. Hughes assumed, like everyone else, that the mother and child was Mary and Jesus. But this is no explanation for nameless mother and child images. Hughes' assumption was based on what the church said later.

Hughes said that the images of the catacombs were from the second century. But she related the history to the FIRST and second century. This was inconsistent. I would suggest that the images of the women leading worship, including the mother and child, did indeed come from the first century. The worshippers had been driven into the catacombs by the Flavians, Vespasian and Titus. But that is another story.

The mother was symbolic of the Spirit. She had the Spirit within her, just like everyone else. The child was the inheritor of the Spirit. The woman was the conveyor of God's Spirit to the child. This was missed by Hughes. In Jewish religion, God's Spirit was the motivator of everything that moved. These people, men and women alike, worshipped God's Spirit, exactly as depicted in Acts. But Jesus came later, after the persecution of the christians or CHRISTIANOS according to the latin inscription found at Pompeii, meaning anointed ones.

Is the Christian God male?

Helen Hooley

25 Apr 201220:59

I've enjoyed the guide through some interesting ancient sites and artefacts, but am continually concerned at the lack of appreciation that the Christian God is NOT exclusively male - there seems to be a complete misunderstanding of the Trinity - God with facets of Father, Son and Spirit, brooding over the waters to create the world (how's that for female imagery!) and female characteristics of nurturing mentioned throughout the Bible. God is not male, does not need a 'wife' - but like the Indian lady interviewed talked about in her religion, can be a role model to men and women. It may not be how the church has portrayed God over the years...

trinity male and female

Carol Kearns

29 Apr 201222:25

As I have said in my earlier post that the Church pre the fifth century and to some extent since them (although mostly only expressed between scholars) the Holy Spirit was regarded and represented as female, this growing from the Hebrew word for spirit or wind being femanin.

There is also presence of female representation of God through the scriptures used by the church, these are concentrated in the gospels and the wrings of the Prophets, although the wisdom of God was also depicted as female (Sophia).

Divine Women

G F

20 Apr 201202:39

I so very much hoped that this would be an interesting series, although I have found Hughes work dubious in the past - too much prancing around as the Nigella of Classicism for my liking, but most disappointing here is the Eurocentric focus. After a promising first episode, we are weighed down with the obsession for Ancient Greece and Rome, and the following forward into Christianity - a dull, simplistic monotheistic religion, with only a later return to the older, richer and far more complex faith systems of Asia and China. Surely re-inforcing traditional colonialist ideas of the pecking order of faiths? And where is the work on Sumer? Ur?Assyria - the Neolithic? Barely in evidence - perhaps because as with Bronze Age Aegean faith, Ms Hughes is out of her depth and forced to rely on the later classical sources she knows. In short, one presenter for such a series limits its scope and academic authenticity, and my fervent wish to revise my low opinion of Ms Hughes scholarly intent bites the dust almost before I have a chance to give it life.

looking at older troditions

Carol Kearns

29 Apr 201222:15

considering some of the errors and omissions made about some well documented aspects of church history (see my earlier post) and the instance of putting a modern and at times distinctly feminist interpretation of evidence which has much to say without the clouding of modern philosophy I do not think looking at areas where there is less research would have been helpful. There is very little known about pre written history religion and it would be confusing and unhelpful for a non specialist to try and talk on it especially when there is an unfortunate habit of reading modern ideas in to history.

This has been an interesting

Preeti George

19 Apr 201223:34

This has been an interesting documentary and I am keen to follow the last episode. Being a Christian woman and this being a topic I was recently studying made it a fascinating potrayal of the role of women as Jesus intended.

I fully believe in the Creation story and and the fall of humanity by adam and eve. It is important to note that though the serpant approached Eve having suspected her of being weaker in spirit and Adam blamed Eve for having brought the apple to him, God was disappointed in both. He punished an banished all three: to the serpant he said you will crawl on your belly, eating dust and descendants of Eve will hate you and crush your head. To Eve he gave pain in childbirth and 'subject to her husband'. (Note God did not create woman secondary, it was her sin that got her this punishment!). To Adam: he will now have to work hard farming the ground to produce food infected with weeds and thorns. (Before, God gave Adam and Eve grains and fruit to eat- maybe Manna that later falls from Heaven to the Israelites in the desert?). And to both He gave death because He took away from them the tree of life which would allow them to live forever. So, death is a result of man's sin.

So, when Jesus died for our sins on the cross and defeated death he also defeated sin. As we are no longer descendants of sin we no longer live under it's yoke. In this context, women are no longer subject to men. Jesus came to free us all. He freely allows both men and women to preach the good news to the world and serve Him. There are many notable women of God mentioned in the New Testament. The first people to see Jesus's resurrection were women. The first person to preach Jesus's message to the gentiles was the Samaritan woman by the well. Jesus only said about two people that they had 'great faith'. A Canaanite woman who came to ask Jesus to heal her daughter of a demon (Matthew 15:28) and the other was a Roman officer who asked Jesus to heal his dear servant (Luke 7:9). He said this of them especially as they weren't Jews. As mentioned in the documentary, Paul mentions and thanks many men and women serving in the church. Priscilla is introdcued as a Deacon which is synonymous in the greek language with the word servant. The only qualification necessary to be this is to be full of the Holy spirit and wisdom, originally set up when a church complained its widows were being neglected by the teachers.Therefore, she wasn't presiding in the church but serving its members which is something Jesus did himself when he washed his disciples feet.

In church, women are forbidden to teach or have authority over men as they are said to have weaker spirits. They have a different role, but that doesnt make them greater or lower than men. This message is preached in many parts of the New testament. Not preaching in church however does not mean they couldnt be missionaries or evangelists and share God's message to the world, as done by a lot of women in the early church and still today. God's says the greatest he will make the least in the kingdom off God and he explains that just as a human body have different functions but they are all the same, the church and christians though they have different talents and functions are all equal and great in the sight of the creator.

A very important verse that Paul speaks says in Galatians 3:28, "So there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles, between slaves and free people, between men and women; you are all one in union with Christ Jesus."

I am thoroughly enjoying this

Bindu Morjaria

19 Apr 201209:04

I am thoroughly enjoying this series, it makes a refreshing change from all the Men-ocentric stuff we usually get shown. I am a Hindu, I have always been brought up to believe that the female is a very important aspect of our world. Women make the male complete. The female goddesses are creators and holders of much power (shakti).

Sadly this does not often reflect in the daily practices of many rituals and female roles have been worn down little by little through the ages.

I am looking forward to the rest of the series. Thank you for a such an enlightening programme.

goddesses and women

Graham Harvey

19 Apr 201211:18

Bindu, thanks, we're glad you're enjoying the series so much!
and we share your interest in the big question about the difficult relationship between honouring goddesses and marginalising women. it does seem there's no obvious or automatic correlation between venerating goddesses and respecting "ordinary" women (many of whom are, of course, extraordinary!). but many people, like you, clearly think women should benefit from the respect shown to goddesses... and to female saints, mystics and other women who do achieve leadership positions.
all the best,
Graham

Another hugely enjoyable and

Claire Fleming

18 Apr 201223:04

Another hugely enjoyable and fascinating chapter from Bettany. Trying hard here to maintain a semblance of critcal awareness but found myself wincing in pain and dismay on hearing another woman - Joanna, Jo Ann?, explain how God 'knew what he was doing (notice the maleness of God is presumed) by making Jesus and apostles male. I feel this is an example of female collusion in their own oppression and colonisation. It in just one of the reasons I left the Roman Catholic church. Surely it the humanity of Jesus which matters and not his gender? Referring to my earlier comment of how women were mostly uneducated or under educated, what chance in Palestine 2,000 years ago would a female prophet/visionary have of her message of a god of non violence, inclusivity and equality being taken seriously? Why did this woman not mention the radicalism of women being told at the resurrection to "Go Tell"? As for Augustine - like so, many of the church fathers, his teaching suited the economic and patriarchial structures (the main reasons for the introduction of a celibate clergy). There were other voices, eg Pelagius who argued for a type of original blessing rather than original sin. I would love to know more about the more ancient religious writings; not for the first time, Bettany has inspired my curiosity about the Hellenic world. A big thank you to her for again bringing us so much knowledge with so much passion and involvement with her subject.

handmaids of the Gods

Carol Kearns

18 Apr 201223:01

although this was a good episode, as a graduate theologen who specialises in the eccliology of the first five centenary I noticed some glaring errors or admissions in the program.

In looking at the images of early Christians it was assumed that the white robe marked ordination when it was commonly worn for the eight days after baptism at Easter by all nipholites (new Christians) and all ministers (deacons, presbyters and overseers).

also in referring to the first ecumenical council of Nasia cannon 19 is refers to as showing the church repressing woman's ministry, however this cannon refers to the admission of members of a group considerd heretical and how to receive the women who had served as deaconesses without ordination (this meaning that to the council they were not in ministry). although this council dose not explicitly say so the DIDASCALIA which is regarded as one of the most important church order documents of the first five centenary regards the woman deacon as the image of the holy spirit as the male deacon is of Christ.

there is also a confusion in the program between the office of the deakonia which could be preformed by both men and women (a division of labour encouraged in the eastern (Greek) provinces and continued in practice until the 10th centery (and is still a positivity in the Orthodox church) and the presbytery and episcoput which have always been vied by the church as a male role due to the symbolism involved. the letergical symbolism which developed in the first three centenary placed the bishop in the symbolic position of God the father, and the deacons as Christ (male) and the holy Spirit (female), while the prebendary (priests) were regarded as the image of the apostles and relay a non active role in the liturgy unless they were preaching.

the blaming of Augustine for the marganalistion of women showed a lack of understanding of ecclesiology in the fourth century, the only bishops relay influenced by him were those who looked to Rome as there patriarch and the Roman branch of the church was not deposed favourably to women and used Augustine's writings as an excuse to exclude women from a central role in the church. The other provinces saw the floors in the writings and the cappidotion fathers in perticuler countered some of the less helpful teachings (it can be viewed that Augustine was only saved from the charge of hericy because he was in favour with the Emperor).

the program was ok as a whole but would have benefited from consultation with a ecclisologist specialist in the early development of the church or a early church theology specialist.

ecclesiological expertise

Graham Harvey

19 Apr 201211:07

Carol, thanks for your detailed comment and response. Clearly Bettany Hughes's approach and argument ranges widely through history and religions (though there's a lot more that isn't even hinted at!). We (at the OU) don't claim expertise in current ecclesiology research but we tried to be helpful in as many ways as we could. Bettany's argument is certainly a powerful one and we hope that the debate it provokes will interest many people - whether or not they agree with her!
thanks again, Graham

In answer to What sort of Q is .......

Tara Deakin

18 Apr 201222:43

I was raised a Catholic and realised when I grew up that I had enough of being told women were the start of evil, are the route to and from all evil. I realised that the ever growing saddle bags of Catholic guilt I carried around for every little mistake in life where never shared by Catholic men, certainly none I've ever met, I can certainly say that is a Religion that marginalises women.......in my opinion and experience.

Divine Women Series on BBC2

KIRSTY LOWE

18 Apr 201222:23

I would like to add how much I have liked he series meant to put that in with my other message.

Divine Women Series on BBC2

KIRSTY LOWE

18 Apr 201222:21

I think a lot of women priests and bishops like Bettany said in her series have been excluded from the start...I was very interested to hear about Theleca, Paul's companion but Paul was not the first to have female companion to be interested in the Teachings of Jesus...Mary Magadalen was the first and she was also the first female and first person that Jesus saw on the day he rose..
The people in the Church believe that men are the only ones to give the bread of life, this is my body..I am quite sure even though it is only the disciples supposed to be at the table when eat this bread in remembering me...I am sure Mary must have been there at some point maybe not at the table, but somewhere in the vicinity as she travelled everywhere with them.
Also which Roman Emperor was it that started up the Roman Church was it Constantine???
Considering were the brought the Church up in Rome and considering that is were the Romans crucified all Christians, so why did the head of Church become Rome...I am a Christian women and I feel that women should have more say and more to do in the Church.

Rome and Christians

Graham Harvey

19 Apr 201211:13

Kirsty, I'm glad you're enjoying the series!
I don't think it'd be quite right to say that any emperor started up the Roman Church. the Church was in Rome before any emperor came to like it... Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the empire but that's not quite the same thing.
As for why Rome became the head of the Church, well, of course that's not what many Christians think! but those that do give their allegiance to Roman Catholicism might point out that it took many centuries of mission and life and martyrdom before the Roman Empire became officially Christian. Whether that was a good thing or not is another topic entirely!
Hope you continue to enjoy the series and the debate,
Graham

The Divinity of Femininity

Amy McKee

14 Apr 201219:34

I'm actually a Fine Art BA student but I have a keen interest in Hinduism- particularly the pantheon of Goddesses it offers. An interest that stems from a personal experience of the Durga Puja a few years ago and of Kolkata being my Mother's birthplace. Recently I've been researching into the 'Divine Feminine' (specifically within the India context, but comparisons to other religious figure are frequent) and compiled a small essay on the subject from a Visual Culture point of view. I'm pleased to find that this programmes interpretations of the Hindu Goddesses encountered are accurate, alongside the explanations of the role of women within Hinduism! So often are Durga and more often Kali misinterpreted by Westerners that it's refreshing to find here a the BBC airing a relatively authentic experience of the Goddess Worship and the myths and imagery that surround them. As the literature on this subject that I've been able to get my hands on have been few and far between (and very dated) it's great that this programme shows the theories I've read about into a real modern context. I'm encouraged that this research is going on, and really hope that more discussion can occur because of the presence of this programme!
In my dissertation I plan to explore Goddess cultures from other areas of the world, so I look forward to see what else the series involves!

When God was a girl

Christina Welch

12 Apr 201220:25

An interesting programme but I found it overly comparative across time and space and I felt uncomfortable about the conclusion that contemporary Durga rituals were almost the same as Ancient Greek ones; insinuations of colonialism here I feel - early anthropologists came to similar conclusions under the ideology of Social Darwinism. The study of religion has moved on a lot; religious studies are rarely comparative these days. I think if the programme had been presented by a Religious Studies scholar this issue would have been rectified.

Also I have problems with the title - the goddesses shown were/are fully female and women, not girls; it should have been when God was a kick [filtered word] woman (especially given the prominance given to sexuality)!

Further, I have issues with your poll - what sort of question is 'Have Women Been Marginalised by Religion?'; which religion, and possibly which tradition within a religion? For a proper answer this needs to be far more nuanced.

RE: When God was a girl

Louise Van De Burgt

15 Apr 201213:06

I like your views, I havn't tried the free study modules yet but I will once my arm is better (damaged tendon and trapped nerves) I must say though I have learnt a lot during my inability to use my arm, namely things around the house and kids getting ready don't happen when I am ill. Years ago women were expected to do a lot more than us today (hand washing, cooking, cleaning, taking care of their husbands and kids. I have no idea how they coped when they were sick. Religion tends to focus upon a patriarchial view still, I believe in some areas, and women all over the worls are oppressed, however there were Goddess-type women who made the world tick and kept it going through war and terror and fear and pain. I guess we all exhibit inner strength which makes men see us today as independent, strong and worthy of looking after. Something our ancestors may have struggled with. Men were forced into taming their wives and having authority over them in the name of religion. However without spirituality of any kind the world would have less morals, values, rules, order and faith. That would cause caos, destruction, aggression, fear and a lack of care towards self, others and the world in general. Woen certainly have been marginalised by religion and in some areas of the world and UK still are, but strong women will always find a way to fight for their rights and protect their fellow sisterhood.

poll, answers and nuances

Graham Harvey

13 Apr 201209:45

Tina, thanks for your comments.
"What sort of question is 'Have women been marginalised by religion?'...":
its a quick, short, provocative question that seems to have got people interested. and you and others are doing the nuancing and debating as we hoped. Of course, you are right to imply that we need to do more than ask questions like that. We do so in our larger, more detailed teaching related work. but we wanted to pick up some threads in "Divine Women" and get people to explore the issues - or just declare their interests - but for a quick straw poll you can't do the whole lecture that covers all possible angles.
thanks,
Graham

Why religion anyway?

Juliet Hagan

12 Apr 201220:40

Why is this programme under the 'religion' banner anyway? Bettany Hughes is a historian, not a theologian, let alone a sociologist. Her take on modern day Durga puja is that it started before Christianity, putting into a historical perspective, and is still continuing (fairly) unchanged. If John Snow did a series about the history of boats, would it get labelled as a travel show?

By the way, the title 'When God was a Girl' is tongue in cheekl alliteration, that's all.

religion and history

Graham Harvey

13 Apr 201209:55

Juliet
as you say, Bettany is an historian or classicist. but as she says at the beginning of episode one, her interest in history was largely inspired by encountering figurines that many label "goddesses" or "priestesses". So, having presented succesful programmes solidly under the "history" label, she wanted to do a series that explored her personal and long term interest in the roles of goddesses and women in religions. This is a theme that she develops throughout the series. And its why the BBC asked us (the Religious Studies department) to act as advisors. We too are neither theologians nor sociologists, but scholars interested in the many different (conflicting) things that can (rightly or wrongly) be labelled "religion". If John Snow does a series about boats and says something about the ways religious objects have moved around the world, or about the encounters between Portugese sailors and West African nations (from which we gained the work "fetish"), perhaps we will be asked for advice. Anyway, our job is to encourage and engage in debate and that seems to be succeeding.
thanks for joining in!
Graham

'Just' fertility?

Juliet Hagan

12 Apr 201219:21

To say Goddesses are 'just about fertility' is a very blinkered comment. Food does not get onto Tesco's shelves the same way DVDs do. We all need to eat, and food needs fertility, even if we're not the farmers. A mother with a large family will strive to get the best harvest she can for her family, and a mother goddess would teach irrigation, animal husbandry, agricultural technology; blacksmithing to shoe horses to stop their hooves breaking; weaving wool and making shoes from skins; devising laws so the food is divided fairly; she would feed and care for the fire that cooks the food, keeps her children warm and protects them from wild animals. And as for sex; no sex, no people! Duh!

Divine Women

Claire Fleming

12 Apr 201218:02

I thouroughly enjoyed the programme and look forward to seeing the complete series. i have always found Bettany Hughes an inspiration, her scholarly approach, enthusiasm for her subjects make her a joy - how I wish I had someone like her when I was at college (many moons ago). I did Theology and particularly loved Scripture study, both Hebrew and Christian but it was with a growing sense of dismay as course after course, tutor after tutor, barely acknowledged the Feminine except for one exceptional female theologian who urged us to "always read between the lines" - for that is also a (vital) part of the story. In so many cultures, women were not literate or encouraged to be, so that the written texts come to us by male historians and scholars. Me - I now seek out the subtext as well as the context and actual text to discover the wonderful story of all humankind, to hear the voices of women who for too long have been silent or been dismissed. As a woman and a mother, I cannot, for example, hear the tale of how wonderfully faithful Abraham was in his blind obedience to a god who would test him by demanding he sacrifice his own son. Would Sarah have done the same? I reckon not and she would have been regarded as faithless and be blamed for all sorts of her peoples' woes. Or perhaps she would have been disregarded as insane? Anyway, sorry to ramble on but I so look forward to hearing more of the feminine divine and so hope many get to see the series and go on to learn more about this fascinating subject.

rambling?

Graham Harvey

13 Apr 201210:00

Claire
we want to hear more!
do post more after the next two episodes. Next week there's more about early Christianity - Paul, Thecla, Mary and more! But there's also some great stuff about Sappho, Aphrodite and others.
hope it continues to fascinate you.
best,
Graham

Women have been marginalised

Tan Tan

11 Apr 201222:19

Yes I believe women have been marginalised - however I believe that they have been marginalised by people, or more specific men, who have used religion as an excuse to do it, rather than it being the religion/faith itself that has marginalised women.

Let me start by saying that I thought this episode was fantastic and I really look forward to watching the rest of the series. However I must admit that there was one disappointment - that it wasn't mentioned that it was in fact Judaism which came before Christianity which gave women a lesser role than men in society. Just think of all Judaism's common misconceptions of women - such as menstruating women should not go amongst fields or their impurity will affect crops. Those who converted to Christianity from Judaism brought their old beliefs with them. Jesus never gave women an insignificant role - actually it was the opposite. The similarities in the value of women in Islam with Judiasm cannot be ignored either. So I don't believe that Christianity was the reason that Goddesses were insignificant or not powerful anymore - I believe it was men who used Christianity as an excuse to impose their personal beliefs that men are better than women. And unfortunately it still happens in society today - with or without religion as an excuse.

Impurity

Alycia Gaunt

12 Apr 201212:36

I agree with what you are saying about women being 'impure' during menstruation, in fact I do beleive that it is the same as most religions. My mothers side of the family are Jaine and menstruating women are not allowed to hold a candle nor go into the kitchen during festivals. This just goes to show the hypocrisy involed with women and their place in religion.

purification

Kevin Burns

12 Apr 201221:20

I'm not sure that menstruation being regarded as impure means hypocrisy around women. It's not as simple as that.

See Jonathan Haidt's work on disgust / elevation - impure doesn't mean wrong, but unsuitable for being associated with the divine. Bodily fluids of all kinds are not usually welcome in religious contexts - try spitting on someone's grave and see what reaction you get.

What interested me about the programme was that it showed genuine evidence of matriarchy (or at least mother-worship) in prehistoric culture. History is all patriarchy, and so we read everything through that misogynistic lens, but what if it were found that menses were kept out of the temple of the Great Mother?

Then again, the carved woman figure in the Turkish temple could have been menstruating.

Menstruation within religious worship

Amy McKee

14 Apr 201219:50

a really interesting element to the 'Yoni' temple of Assam shown in the episode (but an element that wasn't mentioned by Bethany Hughes) I think would be of interest to you. The temple is actually of great importance within the (dwindling) 'Shakti' cults of India. Shaktism is a cult deriving from Hinduism that places women at the centre of it's worship. Shakti worshippers visit this temple to worship the 'Yoni' of the Mother Goddess and the natural stream that emerges from the central stone of worship (the triangular stone symbolising the Goddesses reproductive organ and the Water being 'life'). Legend has it that after the first Monsoons every year the waters of this natural stream run red with Iron-oxide, believed to be the menstrual fluid of the Great Mother Goddess! To touch this menstrual 'blood' is desired and holy, and actually during menstruation, women are seen as being closer to the Divine Feminine power and a true embodiment of Shakti, and are worshipped. Some extreme versions of worship are said to be the drinking of actual menstrual blood!
Although maybe an odd version of devotion, the veneration of menstruation shown in Shaktism and Tantrism is the polar opposite to what patriarchal religion offers us and indicates a more refreshing celebration of the natural state of women!

Jesus, Judaism and Christianity

Graham Harvey

12 Apr 201211:11

Tan Tan, thanks for your comment. I think you misunderstand Jewish teaching and practice regarding purity.
There will be more in later episodes of "Divine Women" and more in our discussion webpages and booklet about early Christian women - their roles and eventual marginalisation. It'll be interesting to see what you think of them, whether you are convinced by Bettany Hughes' arguments about history or our invitation to discuss contemporary women leaders.
bye for now,
Graham

Divine Women

Jane Edwards

12 Apr 201214:54

I watched the BBC2 documentary last night expecting to be disappointed with something bland and formulaic. Instead I was blown away when the first place visited was the archaeological site of the earliest religious building, Gobekli Tepe. Bettany Hughes went on to link the imagery of fecund, strong women/goddesses (with lions) down through the ages, so that it was possible to infer, without her making it obvious, that the "dark power" of goddesses such as Durga and Kali is akin to the lioness fighting for her cubs.

It was disappointing that no comparison was made between the female figure from Gobekli Tepe with strikingly similar images known as Sheila Na Gig carved in many Christian churches. A series of programmes that delved deeper into the widespread language and visual references indicating a worldwide reverence for a Mother Goddess ( often split into various aspects like Maiden, Mother and Crone or the Nine Muses) would be of great interest to a broad spectrum of viewers.

Please don't let clever photographic and editing techniques use up so much valuable time and spoil the clarity of what we are seeing. It was frustrating that the camera lingered clearly on Bettany Hughes, who is a superb presenter but could have been more effective in voice over part of the time so that the focus was kept STILL on what we wanted to learn about. All the same this is a courageous project, combating the phallocentric brainwashing effect that is still prevalent in many religions today.

Sheela

Kevin Burns

12 Apr 201221:09

Hi Jane

I just made the same comment on the other thread about fertility re Sheela na Gigs. Very striking similarities, and they apparently originate in pre-Celtic culture - ie, it was not a late import from the East.

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Originally published: Thursday, 29th March 2012
Last updated on: Thursday, 29th March 2012

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