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Timewatch: The Beatles - discussion
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Viewers share their memories of The Beatles.
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Comments
8 Jan 2007 14:33
I am now 63, and I lived through Beatlemania - and yes, of course they were the greatest thing that ever happened to pop music. They broke completely new ground, and created history on many occasions. Sure, they were not always squeaky clean, but then, who was? They will be remembered long after everybody says "Oasis Who?"
8 Jan 2007 15:10
My recollection of the sixties was that you were either a Beatles or Stones fan, not both. Good as Oasis are, will they still be selling records and getting played in 30 years time as both the Stones and Beatles still are? I'll always prefer the Stones, but can't argue with the Beatles record (no pun intended). They simply are the Greatest.
10 Jan 2007 14:06
I would not sit down to listen to the Beatles ever but the history of the band is another thing,I watch the program with interest, and will do so on Friday 12/January.
Second thoughts I would rather sit down to the Beatles,than oasis,
13 Jan 2007 14:00
Why not sit down and listen to The Boston Pops play the Beatles music - when you have heard the Boston Pops play Elaenor Rigby you will realise that there was a magic - a presence, in the Beatles' music that is not in the music of any other 'pop' group.
12 Jan 2007 22:03
> My recollection of the sixties was that you were
> either a Beatles or Stones fan, not both.
Yes. For a while you had to be for Cliff or for Elvis, then it all switched and you were for Beatles or Stones. And if you were for the Beatles, you had to pick which was your favourite (mine was George). I don't know if it was just something dictated by the way school girls thought or whether the need to choose affected others.
12 Jan 2007 22:19
As a young child at primary school in the mid sixties I can remember that friends were gained or lost depending on if you were a Stones or Beatles fan. We would regularly play a game in the playground involving holding hands with other children who were also Beatles fans and trying to get a bigger human chain than those in the Stone's chain. The mix was fairly even which perhaps shows that other bands also had quite an influence in that period.
12 Jan 2007 22:30
I know I saw the BEATLES at the wimbledon Palais circa 1962 but can find no record of it in all the books, please convince me it is not old age playing tricks...I know it's true just want details for my Beatle fan boys!
BEATLES
Thank you BEATLE mates for making not only my taste in music complete but for being a massive part in all my family’s education to real and ultimate music talent,my son's and now my grandsons bedtime lullabys.
“It’s my way of saying thank your to your consummate skill as entertainers of the 20th century."
I toast and thank you for inspiring us and the pleasure you have endowed dear Beatles,
Your music will live forever!
and god bless you all!
My son the most knowledgeable 35 year old BEATLE fan of all, challenge him?... and sound mixer...Spyder Carcuss (has to be in 5:1) is now backing the 2007 new sensation..Findlay Brown..with backing vocals and percussion,both are BEATLES orientated,the album is out on Feb 5th., (see dad's taught then well :-))
god bless absent friends)
Alan
13 Jan 2007 15:52
Re Wimbledon Palais (Alan Jones) I have a brilliant reference book, " The Beatles Encyclopedia" by Bill Harry which says the Beatles played at the Wimbledon Palais on 14th Dec 1963 at a fan club convention.
Incidentally I saw my grandson today (age 11), he told me he saw the Timewatch programme and loved it as he is a great fan himself!
13 Jan 2007 13:52
I am most fortunate - I saw The Beatles - both shows at the Gruge Halle, in Essen in Germany - way back in 1966 on 25 June to be exact. It was an unforgettable day. I wound up doing crowd control at the barrier in front of the stage. I later stood at the edge of the stage -= less than 2 metres from the feet of John Lennon. My wife Maureen gatecrashed the press conference and then with the assistance of the manager of Cliff Bennet's Rebel Rousers (supporting act) she had the doorman threatened with 'the Russian front' until he allowed me to also enter the press conference room. We later had to be re-admitted into the main hall, to gain access to the cloakrooms to collect our coats. We watched the second performance from the third row from the stage. In 1968 we were most fortunate to be able to visit John Lennon at his home in Weybridge. Believe you me - there never was - and probably never will be, a group like The Beatles. Oasis, U2, Take That, Westlife, the Rolling Stones, the list is endless but the fact is definite -the shadow of the Beatles will always be big enough to cover them all!!
14 Jan 2007 10:11
I remember when I was 15 years old my dad bought me a tape to tape recorder and i used to record live broadcasts of Saturday club with Brian matthew. Occasionally the beatles would be live on the show. From this i deduced that the rolling stones were a better band musically but lennon/mccartney lyrics were unsurpassed
8 Jan 2007 15:17
I was born in 1966 so i never saw the Beatles live and to be honest i've always thought they were a bit overrated,however, i do agree that they were groundbreaking and i definitely think they are better than Oasis!! as are Blur buts that another story!
12 Jan 2007 22:10
To get a full apreceation of the Beatles music you need to watch a cover band like the Bootleg Beatles perform a full show, or listen to the music on a long evening. You will experience the diversity and quality of the music. Most songs have turned out to be classics and will always be valued for the rest of time. My kids are 16 and 14, like modern bands, but also love the beatles. I think it was all in the mix! The combination of vocals etc, even down to Harrisons guitar playing. They were never as good when they were apart. Still very good but that outstanding sound had gone.
12 Jan 2007 22:12
Nick,
Please buy a Beatles album , any . Enjoy 40 minutes of the greatest !!!!
12 Jan 2007 22:14
I was 8 years of age when the Beatles burst on to the pop scene. I, like 95% of my generation immediately liked them. They were something completely new. In their Hunter Davis official autobiography someone says that the were told by sycophants they were geniuses so often that they started to act like geniuses and I think that sums them up. They were the original boy band (although they wrote their own music - unlike latter boy bands) but within a couple of years had taken pop music onto another level, they lead the world, what the Beatles did EVERYONE else followed. Remember these lads were only in the public domain as the Beatles for about 7 years but their creative output was phenomenal by ANY standards. Artists that have been around for 40 years have still not overtaken their records - that sums up the impact they had on the world. I still measure all music by their benchmark. I think to myself would this song make it on to a Beatles LP. Yes, there have been plenty that would but not many by the same artist. Lennon and McCartney were obviously massive talents but if I was name my top 10 Beatles songs probably 4 of them would be Harrison compositions. One great songwriter in a band is good, two brilliant, three plainly unfair on the rest of competing bands and the Beatles had 3 brilliant songwriters.
8 Jan 2007 15:28
I graduated from the ou this year, one of the courses I took included the Sixties. I took issue then with the obsession with the Beatles and the sixties. As a teenager in the sixties I never bought or owned a Beatles recording and survived very well without them. As far as I remember the Beatles were around from the early 60's and split up before the end of the decade. You have to remember other 60's influence the Kinks, Stones etc and Van Morrison all of whom still have influence in 'pop' (I hate that word) music today. Let only the American Motown, Beach Boys etc. I understand that Paul McCartney bought the rights to the Buddy Holly records, you have to give him credit for that. I do feel somtimes that I am alone with this opinion but there must more out there who think that there was alot more to 60's music than the Beatles.
12 Jan 2007 22:33
I'm sure lots of people managed quite well without the Beatles, but someone once rightly said that the sixties didn't start till 1963, i.e. when the Beatles started, and how right that person was. For us who were 15 when Please Please Me came out it was immediately obvious that this was somehting really different and superior to the pop music we'd experienced up to then. The Beatles were around from then to the end of the 60s and split up in 1970 - sorry to be pedantic, Jean, but that was the timespan. Of course there were other great bands and the 60s isn't just the Beatles,but the Beatles along with Dylan (in a completely different way), broke the mould. Today's culture is what it is for better or worse, to a siginifcant extent, because of what the Beatles started. My teenage daughters love the Beatles (and Dylan). If you're ever in Liverpool the National Trust now owns the houses where John and Paul grew up. The days of our glory frozen in time. The programme was nostalgic for us who lived the sixties, but it really did miss out on the wonderful moment when the Beatles arrived back in Heathrow from their first American tour. They interrupted Grandstand (the main sports programme of the day) to interview them, an unheard of event. What the programme didn't fully explain was until then almost no British acts had ever got into the American charts - whereas the Beatles at one point had all the top five places in the chart. The British invasion followed and has continued.
12 Jan 2007 23:47
You got it spot on Huw! I too remember the Beatles arriving back at Heathrow Airport and the BBC interrupting Grandstand to bring us fans a live interview. At that time it was totally unheard of for Saturday sport to be interrupted in this way! The Beatles have sold over a billion recordings held the top five in the american charts and the top six in the australian charts. They were always touring when their records were number 1 so cine film was shown paving the way for the pop video! I don't think we shall ever see their like again. John Lennon was always my favourite I loved him from the first moment I saw him and I always will, but all of the Beatles were talented. Great days and watching this programme brought it all back!
8 Jan 2007 15:45
I can still remember seeing the Beatles perform back in the late sixties at the Wimbledon Palais, although I did not hear them very well above all the screaming! They were on the stage behind a specially built cage to keep us away from them! At least I can claim that I saw them 'live', little knowing then how much they would influence the world of music and bring us so many beautiful songs over the coming years.
12 Jan 2007 22:15
Hi
I too was at Wimbledon Palais in the late Sixties with my friend and we were lucky enough to get right at the front - pushed up against the cage so we managed to hear the singing. As long as we faced front that is as the noise behind us was something else. We were 15/16 and in our enthusiasm to get to the front my friend collided with a policeman knocking his helmet off. The gig was an unforgettable experience. The Sixties were a great time to be alive and the music scene was totally varied, Beatles, Stones, Beach Boys, Motown and as such there was something for everyone.
13 Jan 2007 01:15
I was at the Wimbledon Palais gig. The screaming was so loud you could hardly hear them and the mesh of the cage was so dense seeing wasn't much better. But quite early on the girl in front of me took off her knickers and threw them at the stage. I got a bit distracted after that. Maybew that was Ann. Anyway I have been grateful to the boys ever since.
8 Jan 2007 17:20
Hi
I remember the Beatles playing in the Keiser Keller and later in THE STAR CLUB - I was only 14+ and bonked off school to see them, but of course in those days there were 5 of them!!! I remember John making some really bad anti-german jokes on stage and calling everyone 'kraut', but I'm glad to say in those days not many german could speak english very well so he got away with it!!
But it was my personal best time and I've got such fantastic memories of the 60's and I made so many friends which I now meet regularly through 'Rock 'n' Roll clubs. But in the 60's there were so many fantastic bands who are still going to this day and Liverpool produced some of the finest who will always be remembered and I for one am pleased to have made Liverpool my home for the past 40+ years. I still go back to my home city of Hamburg but sadly the 'Star Club is now just a distant memory, but the sound goes on so do do my and many musicians memories of the 60's.
Rock on
Maja
8 Jan 2007 18:12
Can't say I disagree with you. Do watch the programme, and see if it offers any new insights.
I'm personally very interested in whether people feel it is
a) proper history - lots of the newspaper previews seem shocked that something that happened 40 years ago is "history".
b) what the Timewatch audience wants to watch.
JF
Editor Timewatch
8 Jan 2007 22:57
Mr Farren,
In this post and in your email Newsletter you seem concerned that the Beatles maybe isn't the sort of subject that Timewatch should be covering. Yes it is! As someone who was a teenager in the 60s I'm very much looking forward to this programme; my children (obviously too young to have been there the first time around) also (to my continuing surprise) like the Beatles, and hopefully will understand something of the extraordinary phenomenon that they were. More generally, I value very highly the range and variety of an umbrella such as Timewatch; I don't watch every programme (and wouldn't expect to), but confidently expect to find lots more equally in tune with my (fairly varied) interests.
I remember at school in the mid-1960s having a stand-in history teacher one week, and he started the lesson by saying 'They say that History is Now: write me an essay about the Berlin Wall'. (Possibly a cop-out on his part, but he did at least mark them!) I've just been re-reading the great '1066 and All That'; as I'm sure you remember, it ends after World War 1 with the statement that '...history came to a full stop'. Sellar and Yeatman knew perfectly well, of course, that it never does; and I feel that your concern about when it starts is also misplaced - your brief should not be arbitrarily limited by such considerations. Keep up the good work!
IanD
9 Jan 2007 15:21
Dear Ian D
Well that's me told!
I agree that the joy of working on and hopefully watching Timewatch is the eclectic nature of the show, and I suppose I wouldn't have commissioned Beatlemania if I didn't in the end think - yep that's history all right.
Still, I wonder if all our viewers will agree. we shall see.
As for the rest of you - it is so wonderful to read those memories - i can feel the years rolling back. amazingly vivid memories. I can't remember Genesis at the Odeon like that at all.
John F
10 Jan 2007 07:24
Not a viewer I'm afraid - live out of England - but I have lived in various parts of the world: In Moscow, on the "Old Arbat" at the turn of the millennium, teenagers would gather around someone with a guitar and sing contemporary pop and rock songs - wait, not too long, and a Beatles song would pop up - now that is historical significance.
I have heard Beatles songs sung independently by teenagers, (not teacher directed) in Shanghai, in Bucherest, in Famagusta.
12 Jan 2007 22:08
Thanks for a great programme. I thought I had followed the band very closely during those hectic years ... well, as closely as an English school girl could, via magazines, fan clud and so on ... but you showed me images and found quite a few facts that were new to me. Great stuff.
14 Jan 2007 13:54
Yes, the Beatles are part of "history". Prior to The Beatles, young people were allowed to take part in some kind of rebellion, and go for Bil Haley or Elvis, or even Lonnie Donnegan. Yet it was accepted that this was an aberration brought about by the teenage condition and that sooner or later they would return to the fold and wear the same clothes as their parents and become their parents. After the Beatles, their parents, and their Royal Family and their Prime Minister, jostled each other aside to demonstrate theat they too were part of the youth movement. For the first time youth set the fashion yardstick and parents followed. Someone may be able to demonstrate to me that this was merely a huge coincidence, but I feel that it was because the Beatles were the first group (how old that word sounds!)to span the generations and the classes. In my opinion, The Beatles ushered in youth culture, and since then the entire marketing industry has recognised that yoof is where the money is. The Beatles are history!
12 Jan 2007 21:58
I saw the Beatles at the age of 11 the night after JFK was assassinated. I think that is classed as history so I can't see why the phenomenon that the Beatles were cannot also be called history
13 Jan 2007 13:12
At a forum in 2005 someone asked in a topic;"what has made you grateful in life".
Without thinking I suddenly wrote; "that I grew up with the music of the Beatles".(especially around 1966)
Now I'd like to add; their personalities and their friendship. I'm rather cynical in daily life, but I think they behaved as they were; nice guys with an inspiring friendship and ofcourse júst as human as we all are.
What makes my stomach turn inside out;
"Beatlesmania" while it also has frustrated so many other popgroups.
Greetings from Amsterdam,
Alfredo
12 Jan 2007 22:18
Yes of course it's history and wonderful it is too.
I was born in 1971 and so missed the whole Beatles thing. My parents were not Beatles fans. I had to find the Beatles myself. So programmes like yours are great, they help me to understand why they stop touring, why they were so ground breaking, etc.
My children enjoy listening to The Beatles now, they are 7 and 3 so Mr Epstein was right wasn't he.
12 Jan 2007 23:15
Yes of course its history, don't listen to those snobs! Pre-sixties the UK was predominately a very stuffy uptight country, and youth were suppressed (does anybody remember expressions like: 'don't cheek your elders', 'speak when your spoken to', 'children should seen and not heard'? That's what the young had to endure. The Beatles played a large part in breaking that down, how? Well undeniable talent, charm and personality. Even the most conservative old duffer would find himself humming along to All My Loving or chuckling at their cheeky Liverpool humour. But here's the significant bit not only were they young they were untrained! They hadn't served their time. They couldn't read or write music but still managed to knock out better tunes than someone who had spent 5 years at music academy. So, for the first time properly youth had merit, it had skill and it was doing it not after a 5 year apprenticeship bowing and scraping to their so called betters, but with vitality, energy and raw talent. Now that is social history!
13 Jan 2007 15:56
Editor
Yes it counts as history, and worthy of qualilty examination from a programme with high standards like Timewatch. The Beatles represented and stimulated a new global phenomenon identified by the programme makers, the emergence of youth culture. The Beatles broke so much new ground, they progressed as much in eight years as pop music has done since. They were democratic in writing songs for themselves. They introduced 'new' chords to the Americans. They are among the most influential musical artists of the twentieth century. The programme could have gone further, demonstrating the Beatles role in pushing the English language to the forefront all around the world.
13 Jan 2007 19:36
> Can't say I disagree with you. Do watch the
> programme, and see if it offers any new insights.
>
> I'm personally very interested in whether people feel
> it is
> a) proper history - lots of the newspaper previews
> seem shocked that something that happened 40 years
> ago is "history".
> b) what the Timewatch audience wants to watch.
>
> JF
> Editor Timewatch
For me history is a time before I was born, what ever the subject. My personal cut off date is WWII, although I was born a couple of years after it finished. History is a voyage of discover for me and not a walk down memory lane. That is why times that I lived through are not so interesting and I can understand to some extent the comments about 40 years ago not being history.
As a member of the Timewatch audience I would watch topics that are presented in a new way and highlight ground not previously covered.
Regards
Jean Cheshire
16 Jan 2007 23:04
Thank you for the excellent programme JF et al. Yes, I believe it most certainly belongs in the eclectic mix of your programmes. To examine just one aspect of the historical significance of the Beatles, it could be in their influence upon the Russian president when he was a young man, surreptitiously listening along with his cohort generation to the Beatles music on the western radio airwaves.
Andrew, aged 10 in '63
8 Jan 2007 18:49
I saw the Beatles on their first tour with Gerry and the Pacemakers and the great Roy Orbison. 'See' is the operative word as I didn't hear much for all the screaming!
I remaoned a fan throughout their carreers. As I grew up, so did their music and that is what kept their fan base.
8 Jan 2007 19:37
Yes,all that screaming!!No wonder John yelled"Shirrup you lot".It must have been absolutely awful for them but oh so lovely for all of us who were so fortunate to be there.Had no idea we were part of History, in fact their appearance at the Southampton Gaumont on 13th Dec. 1963 for which I was lucky enough to buy tickets was, I think, the last night of that tour.The Beatles were wonderful, I was so glad I caught the "Milk train" to join the ticket queue! It definitely was worth it but I think my boyfriend was not so sure-----he was terribly embarassed to be surrounded by histerical girls all screaming that John-Paul-George_Ringo had only eyes for them! Not knowing at the time of John's myopia I was convinced he was singing "Twist & Shout" straight towards me at the front of the Circle! Optimism of youth.It seems such a short time ago, certainly not 43 years.Loved them from the moment I heard "Love Me Do"-----it was so FRESH & DIFFERENT. My sons are so impressed that "I WAS THERE".
12 Jan 2007 23:29
The Beatles first tour was in Jan/Feb 63 with Danny Williams and Helen Shapiro. Then in March 63 with Tommy Roe and Chris Montez. I know, I was there!
8 Jan 2007 20:13
> I am now 63, and I lived through Beatlemania - and
> yes, of course they were the greatest thing that ever
> happened to pop music. They broke completely new
> ground, and created history on many occasions.
> Sure, they were not always squeaky clean, but then,
> n, who was? They will be remembered long after
> everybody says "Oasis Who?"
I have always thought that one big difference is that most people would recognise many Beatles tracks and be able to name some. But I suspect that the majority of people would not recognise an Oasis track and not be able to name one, I know that I would not recognise one.
MB
8 Jan 2007 20:15
Sunday lunch in the early 60's for my family meant a roast joint with roast vegetables, rice pudding to follow and listening to Two Way Family Favourites, a radio programme for the Forces abroad and their families in the UK.
Thus it was that a request from a soldier serving in Germany, who had obviously heard (of) the group, introduced me to the fantastic, different and vibrant sound that was the Beatles. I would have been 13/ 14 years old.
I later saw them playing third item on a programme headed by Gerry and the Pacemakers, then Cilla Black.
They wore their famous grey jackets and shook their bobbed hair and yes, you could hear them sing, at that stage in their careers.
My favourite was always George Harrison.
We had individual wooden desks with lids at school, with virtually every girl having photos of the Beatles on the underside of her desk lid.
The fashion was to have long straight hair a la Cilla or Sandy Shaw. A bit difficult for someone like me with wavy hair, which meant having to sellotape the fringe in a vain effort to straighten it, and even ironing one's hair with brown paper between hair and iron!It didn't work.
However, I was in my element when "Afro" style hair was in, later on!!
Happy days.
12 Jan 2007 22:17
Sandra:
I can't believe the stuff I'm hearing on this forum - your story sounds like something straight out of a fanfiction! But it's so wonderful that there are people around from whom I can hear these things; as a teenage writer and shamefully obsessed Beatles fan, there's nothing that stirs up the imagination quite like it.
And funnily enough, I paste pictures of the Beatles on the inside of my locker. And my favourite was always George Harrison too. :)
12 Jan 2007 22:34
Yes, I remember it too, the pictures hidden in the schooldesk, the concerts and the music. I was 13 in 1962 when Love me Do was relased. There was a tremendous sense of excitement and a feeling that life was new and fresh and we were discovering something special which no one had experienced before. I don't think today's teenagers feel the same. The Beatles encapsulated the decade - excitement, wit and talent. No question.
8 Jan 2007 20:17
The Beatles opened up a new world. They can be compared to Mozart, Beethoven and Handel - genius. Only Paul Simon of the modern era comes anywhere close to them.
12 Jan 2007 22:14
I AGREE WITH TONY PROSSERS COMMENTS,EXCEPT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO ADD PRINCE TO THAT OF PAUL SIMON, AS A MODERN DAY GENIUS
10 Jan 2007 14:52
I saw the Beatles at the City Hall Newcastle Upon Tyne on 23rd November 1963. They were very professional even then, perhaps reflecting their experiences gained in Hamburg. The problem was being able to hear them above the din made by screaming females.
The Beatles were and still are the greatest ever, closely followed by the Stones. If only music was as good to listen to to-day.
12 Jan 2007 22:01
I was lucky enough to be taken to the Beatles Christmas show at the Hammersmith Odeon. My parents took the whole family, though I think my sisters were too young at the time to remember it now. It was undoubtedly very noisy, but we could hear quite a bit of the music and the atmosphere was something none of us had experienced before.
I belonged to the fan club for years, collected the bubble gum cards, subscribed to the magazine, persuaded family to buy the LPs as gifts for self and sisters ... I can't listen to the music now without such strong memories of happy childhood that I probably can't judge it objectively. To me most of it still sounds good, the bits that were daft then are daft now and some is really splendid.
12 Jan 2007 22:06
Alan,
The Beatles are and always will be the best band this world will ever see.
Cheers
Colin
12 Jan 2007 22:08
> I saw the Beatles at the City Hall Newcastle Upon
> Tyne on 23rd November 1963. They were very
> professional even then, perhaps reflecting their
> experiences gained in Hamburg. The problem was being
> able to hear them above the din made by screaming
> females.
> The Beatles were and still are the greatest ever,
> closely followed by the Stones. If only music was as
> good to listen to to-day.
I saw the Beatles perform live at the ABC Regal Great Yarmouth approx. 1964 - it was not that good as I remember - the screaming/howling girls and women drowned out any possbility of listening to their music. The only number I really heard was 'Twist & shout' which John had to belt-out so hard he virtually lost his voice. However an experience to remember, just a pity they could not be heard for the talented band they were. The Kinks were on the same bill and came over much better.
12 Jan 2007 22:23
I too saw the Beatles live in November 1963. This was at the beginning of November at Sheffield City Hall.I was almost 13 years old and was was one of the screaming females. Couldn't hear much but it was so fantastic just to be there. Wouldn't have missed it for the world. Tonight's programme just reminded me of how we all loved them as they seemed just like ordinary lads enjoying themselves. Happy days!
12 Jan 2007 22:09
I too was at that concert, and was probably screaming a bit as well. I can still picture them singing Twist And Shout and All My Loving from their 2nd album that I'd been given the day before. The ticket cost 5/- or 25p which is almost unbelieveable.
I always remember the date as it was the day after the assassination of JFK.
I was lucky enough to see them on their next UK tour at the same place. The screaming had almost stopped by.
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