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Which historical facts and myths do you consider being the oddest and/or most ironic?
A few that occurred to me included;
John Wayne and Errol Flynn- both such popular screen warriors/adventurers- never served in the armed forces.
Alfred Nobel - he of the Nobel Peace Prize fame- having also invented dynamite?
The two alledged anti-Christs, Hitler and Napoleon, neither being from the countries that they respectively led?
The multitude of incredible links between the lives, careers and assassinations of Presidents Kennedy and Lincoln?
Hitler, perhaps the worst and bloodiest tyrant in history, being a vegetarian teetotaller?
Jesus Christ being a peaceful man and carpenter by trade, and then being nailed to a wooden instrument of punishment and death?
Billions of people have and do worship Christ- yet only two of the four authors of the gospels ever met him (Matthew & John) although all four wrote within five decades after his death in ad33, which most of the bible was not.
Which other famous examples are there?
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History’s greatest ironies?
Which historical facts and myths do you consider being the oddest and/or most ironic?
A few that occurred to me included;
John Wayne and Errol Flynn- both such popular screen warriors/adventurers- never served in the armed forces.
Alfred Nobel- he of the Nobel Peace Prize fame- having also invented dynamite?
The two alledged anti-Christs, Hitler and Napoleon, neither being from the countries that they respectively led?
The multitude of incredible links between the lives, careers and assassinations of Presidents Kennedy and Lincoln?
Hitler, perhaps the worst and bloodiest tyrant in history, being a vegetarian teetotaller?
Jesus Christ being a peaceful man and carpenter by trade, and then being nailed to a wooden instrument of punishment and death?
Billions of people have and do worship Christ- yet only two of the four authors of the gospels ever met him(Matthew & John) although all four wrote within five decades after his death in ad33, which most of the bible was not.
Which other famous examples are there?
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
Often the label 'irony' is used too quickly and obscures the deeper reasons behind the connections between historical incidences. For example, the 'outsider' status of Napoleon and Hitler vis-a-vis their respective states is mirrored throughout history. To list a few:
- many Scots seem to prosper in the London-dominated government of Westminster
- the German Windsor family eventually producing some of Britain's most memorable monarchs
- 'Governator' Arnie of Austria becoming such a huge hit in California
It's much more productive to consider reasons for these apparent surprises. Outsiders frequently have more ambition, drive and a need to prove themselves in a relatively more hostile environment. They also tend to have a more detached and realistic perspective on their adopted homes, which helps them to understand underlying trends. I think, moreover, they can bring a freshness and dynamism by being different - proving very attractive.
Another 'irony' bears closer inspection. Yes, only two of the four gospel writers were amongst the 'Twelve' apostles. However, Mark was a 1st Century 'ghost-writer' for the apostle Peter - recording (warts and all) his eyewitness testimony about Jesus, who he spent three intense years with.
Luke (who also wrote the Acts of the Apostles) 'carefully investigated everything from the beginning' and wrote 'an orderly account' for a friend. His historical accuracy is outstanding. For example, we know from other records there was a Quirinius, Governor of Syria, at the time of a census that took Mary and Joseph from Nazareth to Bethlehem, to fulfill a prophecy made over 500 years before the event.
In fact, there is more evidence about a relative 'nobody' from backwater Galilee than the Roman ruler and near contemporary Julius Caesar. Finally, the fact billions have believed in and followed Jesus in the almost 2000 years since he walked on this earth would, surely, make any objective observer think there was something worth investigating in the four gospel accounts.
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
It is perhaps one of of the great ironies of history that millions of people hear this story every year, without realizing that it is one of the tallest and most unlikely stories in the Bible, closely rivalling Jonah and the whale. It certainly makes me smile every year. There was indeed a census in AD 6, when Quirinius was governor of Syria. But the purpose of a Roman census was of course to register people for taxation. The idea that a Roman administrator would require people to register for taxation in the birthplace of their ancestors is Monty-Pythonesque --- as if Her Majesty's Inland Revenue service would require all descendants of Robert Bruce to file their tax returns in Turnberry Castle. Not to mention the predictable chaos that would ensue if all Jews who claimed King David among their ancestors would descend on the insignificant little village of Bethlehem.
In general modern scholars have judged that the author of the gospel of Luke was guilty of wanting too much that the prophecies would be true, and (deliberately or not) confused both the time and place of Jesus' birth. Incidentally, in our Catholic service Luke is read at Christmas as stating that the census happened "ere Luke was governor of Syria", which covers the ten-year chronological conflict in the Bible with a veil of dishonest translation. I wonder how many people are aware of this.
That, of course, is utter nonsense. We don't just have Caesar's own writings, we have the letters his contemporaries wrote about him, and the scurrilous epigrams of his opponents. Even the jokes his soldiers told about him and the coins he minted to pay them. However, it is a bit ironic that although Caesar is one of the most famous men in history, whose own name became of an indication of imperial rank and who was a highly talented general and writer, we actually know very little about his character and motivations. He seems to have been a rather aloof character who never bothered to explain himself.
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
the preson who wrote the song "keep the home fires burning" died in a house fire!
The Confederate song "Dixie" was written by someone in the north and the battle hym of the north was written by a southerner. (American Civil War)
The Brittanic although re-designed with loads of extra saftey features including a double hull, better stress points and more life boats than her famous sister ship the Titanic sank in under 17 miniutes because the nurses on board leftthe port holes open after it struck a mine in 1916
The Omaha beach disaster
I was not personally involved in the Omaha beach landing but, being in the Lincoln Regiment, I was further up landing ground at Gold beach but news soon filtered through about the difficulties the Americans were having in getting a foothold there. The whole operation was a shambles and pointed to lack of intelligence as to who and at what strength the Germans had there at the time.
Market Garden was a similar operation, intelligence told the top boy's that quite a few tanks where hiding there and that it was possible that the operation would crumble, and so it did, but that is another story.
My greatest hero belongs to an American officer called Dick Winters. He and a few other went inland to knock out several German guns that were making anuisance of themselves by firing shells at the beach from about 3 miles further inland, and were successful in doing so.
I can vouch for this without predgudice that if the Commonwealth troops and the Americans did not take part in the Normandy landing we I would not be writing this today, that's for sure.
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Correcting myself really, the Hapsburgs, not Ottoman. Sorry!
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
I'm pretty sure Nobel started his prizes because he was shocked at what was being done with dynamite, so, honestly, not that ironic.
Hitler was German, he spoke German, he was culturally German, he led the Germanic peoples as he saw it, not the state of Germany. Likewise, Napoleon was culturally French.
What are the incredible links between Lincoln and Kennedy's live and assasinations? I fail to see very many.
It's interesting that Stalin was a John Wayne fan, yet tried to have him assasinated, because of the blow that would be to the US. Hitler loved Chaplin's films, despite the Nazi ideology of Jews as filthy vermin that are out to destroy everything wholesome and Aryan.
A fitting coincidence is that Jimmi Hendrix's flat was next door to Handel's.
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
Hitler was actually Austrian, born on April 20th 1889 in Braunau-am-Inn, Austria. Although Napoleon was born on Corsica an island in the Med, it is considered by most to be one of the 26 regions of France.
Regards,
Ergo
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
That Richard III devoted so much of his adult life to making justice available to all yet was himself deprived of it by his Tudor killers.
Catherine
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
Talking of "Richard" Richard I, one of Englands greatest Kings didn't speak a word of english, only French and was more concerned about his French territories than England. He used England as a "cash cow" for defense of his French territories, and also for his Crusades. He spent about 6 months in England during his reign.
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
i think it ironic that the british people are so opposed to immigration despite british reach being so far from this pleaseant isle and for which a lot of wealth was accumulated. what do they teach kids these days in history classes? are the media responsible for our short term memory and lack of connection with the past actions of this british empire
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
Another irony, perhaps if your willing to stretch the meaning of the word a little.
You have to pay to visit Karl Marx's tomb, Highgate Cemetery, London. The economist and philosopher who was so opposed to capitalism.
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846. John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.
Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860. John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.
Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.
Both of their wives lost their children while living in the White House.
Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
Both were shot in the head.
Both were rumored to be killed in a conspiracy.
Lincoln was shot in the Ford Theater. Kennedy was shot in a card made by the Ford Motor Company (a Lincoln no less) Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy. Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.
Both were assassinated by Southerners. Both were succeeded by Southerners. Both successors were named Johnson. Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808. Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.
John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839. Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.
Both assassins were known by their three names.
Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse. Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater. Both assassins were assassinated before their trials.
The only complete filming of Kennedy's assasination was shot by Abraham Zapruder. The only complete account of Lincoln's assasination was written by John Zelfindorfer.
A week before Lincoln was shot, he was with friends in Monroe, Maryland. A week before Kennedy was shot, he was with his friend Marilyn Monroe.[/FONT]
There are further, increasingly tenuous, similarities, but that should be more than enough.
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
Hitler was an Austrian not a German!
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
and eh, Napolean was Corsican! neither Hitler nor Napolean were from the country they led...and on that point...Wellington was from Ireland (near Drogheda), and Montgomery was from Nothern Ire, Fermanagh, i think!
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
To quote the Iron Duke on that: Being born in a stable doesn't make you a horse...
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
Apparently the first British regiment deployed in 1914 was to Basra, Iraq.
Ironic how history repeats itself.
With regards to Hitler being Austrian it is worth mentioning, although not really ironic, that it was Austria and their Ottoman Empire, which included many ethnic Serbian territories, which lead to the first War.
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
eeehhhh!!! Hitler was Austrian!
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
In another of history's great ironies, the fire brigade put up a sign in the house where Stalin was born. "Fires are easier to prevent than to put out."
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
How about the RNLA (Life boats to you) being the only really successful example of Anarcism in action?
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
internal combustion engines were originally designed for bio fuel
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
The introduction of hydro-carbon oils saved the whale by replacing whale oil in lamps with oil from the ground!
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
Only because it was cheaper,no-one gave a damn about the whales back then and they're not out of the fire yet.
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Surely - that's why we're in the irony thread?
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
Love that one!
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
What about Henry Ford; having famously & defiantly categorised history as "bunk", he is inextricably part of it? :)
Re: History’s greatest ironies?
Hitler was NOT vegetarian; he merely, at the urging of his doctor, ate SOME vegetarian meals. Vegetarianism was medically advised and advisable, but Hitler bucked that in favor of lots of cravings, according to testimony from one of Hitler's personal chefs.