Transcript

CLIVE COLEMAN

Do you accept that there are many people who believe that a child aged 10 absolutely does know the difference between right and wrong, and that is, and that should be the test for criminality?

EILEEN VIZARD

To them what I would say is why 10, why not 9, why not 7? Because age 7, children do have some grasp of right and wrong.

CLIVE COLEMAN

And they would say well look 10 is the age we’ve got and from our experience we know that that’s a sensible and reasonable age to know that children do know the difference.

EILEEN VIZARD

I don’t think we know anything of the sort actually. I think we know that children understand the difference between big rights and big wrongs but in terms of defending themselves in the criminal courts, they have no capacity to understand where a guilty or a not guilty plea will take them. They do not have the developmental maturity to participate fairly and fully in their own trial, and there’s abundant evidence to that effect.

CLIVE COLEMAN

Do you accept that’s also an almost impossible sell politically but it’s also a very difficult sell to parents of young children perhaps who have been on the receiving end or even killed by child offenders and also people whose lives frankly are made a misery by young children and their offending.

EILEEN VIZARD

Well I do understand that but I think what we’ve also got to look at is the wider public interest here. The present system isn’t working.