# Transcript

RAJ MEHTA:
For me, I think almost really decades now since the seventies when I first, you know, came across having to use a social services care and at the point of diagnosis is when I first became aware of the social service. Changes since the seventies have been considerable, but I feel that they still have a way to go.
PETER LATCHFORD:
Yeah, I suppose I would say that, um, when I first got involved as a – in, um, patient public involvement, I think that it was very much about being, um, drafted in for a session of work, um, a particular topic, um, a particular, um, lecture perhaps and then that would be that and then we would do another one on something dissimilar probably. Um, and I think now that there’s much more, um, there’s been a move towards a much greater involvement of patients and carers and I think for me that has been a really big positive, um, so that we are now much more involved in the nuts and bolts of, um, academic life, academic courses and student learning so that we have more of an input.
RAJ MEHTA:
The terms ‘service user’, ‘expert by experience’ have also evolved and I think I have seen it referred in different contexts by different kind of, um, services. So, you know, I have seen care provided and people seen as customers or clients, which I find interesting. Similarly, you know, in some contexts, the service user or expert by experience have been seen as service participant and I think that sort of reflects the evolution of how the service user and the social work or social work profession kind of works together to achieve a kind of outcome that’s appropriate for the person. So, but I think that, really, it is quite interesting – those terms have got such a different, you know, connotations and different kind of meaning for people. You know, ‘service users’, for me, is the appropriate term or ‘expert by experience’, I think, for me, it’s a service user. ‘Service participant’ kind of takes it a slightly in a different direction. It says ‘I am part of this providing the care. I think I am a recipient of the care, not the provider.’ But I – you know, and so, I sometimes kind of have this, you know, um, disconnect with those kinds of terms.
PETER LATCHFORD:
Yes, I think that, um, in terms of receiving care, I think it was very much a question of, um, here was the social worker, here was the client or whatever the terminology was and the social worker would say something along the lines of ‘These are the services; these are the things that we can offer, and this is what I think we should do,’ and there was very little input, I think, from the service user. Um, it was sort of ‘Yeah, OK, then, let’s do that,’ whereas I think there has definitely been a movement forward in terms of, um, some kind of more of a partnership, um, which has been a real challenge, I think, um, for the social work profession. It’s about giving up power and knowledge and, um, handing it over to the service user and carer. So, I think it’s been a – it’s being – a big shift. Yet again, I would say it is going along in the right direction, but it’s challenging.
RAJ MEHTA:
Peter, looking through these modules that we’ve both been doing, I think, for me, what it does is from a service user’s point of view, there is an acknowledgement on the importance of having service users in the – in doing everything you do as a social worker. But also, it brings – it actually highlights the importance of having experts by experience in the academic learning. So, I think the module’s been brought up to date with some of the concepts around equality, diversity, inclusion, all of those issues; but also, it has also really recapped on the importance of expert by experience in an academic environment, so it is as important for students to learn from expert by experience as it is from, you know, reading and, um, understanding the theoretical perspectives.
PETER LATCHFORD:
I agree. I think it does help to move it away from a purely theoretical exercise because clearly that’s important, but also the practical skills that are required and the service user perspective and the empathy and those kinds of things are so important that I think that needs to be weaved through the whole of – well, the whole of – the course, really, but in this particular module, I think, yeah, always brings it back then to, um, what the job is all about, really, which in the end, is all about people and dealing with difficult situations. And sometimes, I think, as a service user, we can just look at the text or – and we can just say – it suddenly just hits us in the face and say, ‘No, that’s – that’s – really doesn’t sound right. It doesn’t sound like that’s the way that we want to go in terms of our interaction and, um, the relationship that we want to have with service users and carers’. So, I think from that perspective, it just keeps it sort of front and centre the whole time.