Transcript

MIKE GREENWOOD:

In the heart of the Palace of Westminster, there’s a place where even the Queen can’t go. It’s a panel chamber where legislation first gets put before Parliament. It’s the Chamber of the House of Commons. Over the centuries, it’s been burnt down, bombed, and rebuilt, and it's witnessed many an impassioned debate amongst MPs. My name’s Mike Greenwood, and I went on a tour of the Chamber with visitor assistant Sarah Polfreman.

SARAH POLFREMAN:

Well, it’s a very beautiful chamber. We have lots of green chairs and benches in front of us, and the Speaker’s chair, which has a canopy over it. The Speaker is a very important role. He controls the parliamentarians in here. MPs can be very rowdy.

It’s much, much smaller than you imagine it’s going to be. There are 646 MPs who can represent their constituents, but only 427 can actually sit in this chamber at any one time.

MIKE GREENWOOD:

On either side of us, looking towards the Speaker’s chair, there are these banks of green leather benches, climbing up to the wooden panelled walls. The actually layout of the chamber is very significant, as well.

SARAH POLFREMAN:

The government sits on the right-hand side from the Speaker, and the opposition on the left-hand side. This isn’t the original House of Commons chamber. Back in 1512, there was a fire, and Henry VIII moved out of this building where he lived, and he gave the whole of the building to Parliament.

And originally, the first House of Commons chamber was in what was his chapel, Saint Stephen’s Chapel. The MPs sat in the choir stalls. That is why they sit facing each other in Parliament. And it was so successful that when they moved the House of Commons to this area after another fire in 1834, it was kept.

House of Commons can get very, very heated, because it’s such an intimate chamber. Everybody is very close together. Ministers and MPs will bash the dispatch boxes. It’s like a cauldron of excitement at times.

MIKE GREENWOOD:

Let’s talk about those dispatch boxes a little more. They’re beautifully ornate, gilded, heavy boxes with metal fittings. What’s inside them?

SARAH POLFREMAN:

They have a religious text inside. Before any MP can actually sit in the Chamber of the House of Commons, they have to swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen. Some MPs in the past have refused to do so. There’s a particular Irish party, Sinn Fein, who refused to do so. In fact, they did have an MP put in the jail halfway up Big Ben because they wouldn’t give the oath of allegiance.

MIKE GREENWOOD:

There’s a jail halfway up Big Ben?

SARAH POLFREMAN:

That’s right. But no one’s been put up there for a good many years, probably half a century now.

MIKE GREENWOOD:

Just looking down on the carpet, looking up towards the Speaker’s chair, there are these red lines in the carpet. Again, there’s some meaning and ritual associated with those, isn’t there?

SARAH POLFREMAN:

Dates back to the time when MPs could come into the chamber wearing their swords. As debates get really, really heated at times, there was the risk that MPs would clash. Well, these red lines on the floor are two and a half sword lengths apart, and it means that everybody has to stay behind the red line when they’re speaking. If they don’t, the Speaker of the House of Commons says, ‘Order, order,’ and they tell them to toe the line, which means they have to stand behind it.

MIKE GREENWOOD:

So, these days in the House of Commons, words are more of a weapon than swords.

SARAH POLFREMAN:

That’s right, and that’s how it should be.

MP:

If the honourable gentleman will allow him to pose a question first, and I’ll check his point of order.

SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS: (SHOUTING)

Order.

SARAH POLFREMAN:

The chamber was completely destroyed in 1941 following an air raid in the Second World War. This chamber took nine years to rebuild, and Winston Churchill insisted that the archway leading into the chamber remained unrepaired, because he wanted that politicians should realise that war is a very devastating thing, and that people suffer from it.

MIKE GREENWOOD:

When it comes to a piece of legislation arriving at the moment of truth – the vote to decide – how’s that vote conducted?

SARAH POLFREMAN:

If it’s unclear what the decision is in the actual chamber, the Speaker of the House of Commons will call a division, ask for the House to be cleared. There will be a division bell that rings, and the chamber will empty of all the MPs.

They will go round to the voting lobbies, either to the ‘aye’ lobby or the ‘no’ lobby. And people will come running from all 11 buildings in the Parliamentary State. And they have eight minutes to actually get to the voting lobbies. And if they fail to get there on time, the doors are shut, and their vote is not counted.

MIKE GREENWOOD:

It’s interesting, in a building redolent with history, I’m also struck by the forest of microphones and the television cameras. It’s also a chamber that’s got a modern life and the means of communicating in a modern way.

SARAH POLFREMAN:

Audio recordings for radio started in the 1960s, but television came along in 1989, and we haven’t really looked back since. It’s very important that Parliament is seen to be democratic, that the public is able to see what is going on.

MIKE GREENWOOD:

So the cameras and microphones can come in, but can the public?

SARAH POLFREMAN:

Yes, they can. They can sit in the gallery of the House of Commons and listen to the debates.

MIKE GREENWOOD:

Interesting. The one person that can’t come in is the head of state, the monarch.

SARAH POLFREMAN:

That’s right. We had King Charles I storm into the first chamber of the House of Commons with 200 troops. And when he left, he was locked out of that chamber, and no monarch has ever been allowed back into the House of Commons end of the building. The Queen today is only allowed to go as far as the Golden Throne in the House of Lords.

MIKE GREENWOOD:

If you want to find out more about the House of Commons and how you might visit it, please go to the parliament website – www.parliament.uk/podcasts. Thanks for listening.