2.1 Evidence Café scenario

Hello and welcome everyone, to this meeting to decide whether an Evidence Café would be helpful for you all. So, hello Emma, Bian, Patty and Terry. My name is Sophie and think it would be a good start if we asked Emma to give me, or to give all of us, some of her opinions or concerns with regard to migration. So, over to you, Emma.

Hi, everybody. So I will just give you a brief summary about some of the things that are bothering me. I started a business in Kenya 10 years ago and I employed 30 people, out of which 10 were given opportunities for training outside the country. I found it difficult to obtain permanent residency, and work permits, and other documents. I've also had to part with so much money to have my documents processed. Although I've invested in the country and have been here for 20 years, it's still very difficult. I and many others are finding it very frustrating. I keep hearing that there are policies in place, but I'm not sure that they're being implemented. There is a lot of corruption and bureaucracy in the system.

Well, thank you. Yes that's really interesting, Emma, and very concerning as well. Right, OK, so I think now maybe Brian would be able to give us some insights from his perspective and any concerns that you have about that?

Hello. Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity. It is very interesting for me to hear this because as far as I know, we welcome migrants in Kenya and the government has many policies in place to enable and support the settlement and participation of migrants' businesses, among other economic activities. Many pathways are open to establishing businesses, procuring work permits or even residency permits. So, I'm wondering about this process that you are talking about. I would like to hear more about it as this meeting progresses. Thank you.

Yes, So, that's really interesting, Brian, and you raise some really valid concerns there. Maybe we could talk to Patty to see what her perspective is around your concerns. Patty, what do you think about this?

Well, I don't actually think it's a big issue, because I think it's very easy to come into this country. We have many foreigners coming in and we also have data and information that we collect from the foreigners that tells us it's easy to enter the country and register a business. We have actually even shortened the application process so that at least they get their permits within two weeks, as opposed to three months. So foreigners can actually settle down quicker. So it's very interesting to hear what Emma is saying about the difficulties of establishing a business, because we have not encountered it ourselves. But we do find ourselves facing unscrupulous foreigners, which is our main concern, that actually are masquerading as immigration officers and they're trying to pay for the permit and flout the system. So that is our main concern when it comes to the permit system. But as for what Emma is saying, it's very new to me.

Yes. Well, I think that's really interesting, Patty and I think there is some very interesting connections here with policies, and processes, and issues of corruption that are coming out there. So, I think now, though, it would be useful to hear from Terry, for his perspective about this. So, over to you, Terry.

Thank you. Research seems to suggest that, if you look across a whole range of countries, that the potential of migrant contributions is not being optimally harnessed in our country. If you look at Finland, Canada, Norway, these are all examples of countries where migrants have helped stimulate the economy. These countries have really embraced multiculturalism, where all racial groups are treated equally to access to those economic and social opportunities. And they contribute their taxes, and they create employment, and promote innovation and technology transfer. And my worry is that many developing countries, for example, that host about a third of the international migrants in the world, but many of these countries, and especially those in Africa, they have yet to tap this potential. Rather, we see xenophobia has become the order of the day. And there is just aggravation and tension with migrants. But they're important stakeholders in the development of these countries in social, economic, and political terms. So they really should be included in those processes of decision making that contribute to the wider development.

Yes, well that's very interesting. Thank you, Terry. And I think that Emma would find that valuable, as I'm sure Brian and Patty do as well. So, I think now we need to think through a way forward for this and to make connections between your different concerns. And I think an Evidence Café and using a discussion object would be a nice way forward for this so we can actually highlight your different concerns and very valuable contributions and evidence, so that you all have in an evidence type approach to this. So let's review and think about that further.