Skip to content

Never the twain?

Inspired by the 2008 Reith Lectures, our community debated if the people living in the East are fundamentally different from those living in the West.Forum member Weiminfuwu borrowed a line or two from Kipling to ask if people living in the West and their counterparts in the East see things differently.

23 Sep
2009
BBC Chinese flags

It is often suggested that the people of the East and the people of the West think differently. For example it is said by some that Westerners think individualistically where Easterners think communally. My friend Wei Wang has suggested in other threads that Westerners think in an abstract manner where Easterners think in a more pragmatic, situational manner - if I understand correctly.

I find this proposition interesting, though I am somewhat sceptical.

I therefore invite Wei Wang to put his thesis to us for discussion. In particular I would be interested to hear of any academic studies which support the thesis. Further, given that abstraction is a fundamental human cognitive skill, is there any evidence from neurophysiology that Easterners and Westerners demonstrate different brain function?

BTW: The much maligned Kipling quote use to name this thread actually runs:

Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God’s great Judgement Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, tho’ they come from the ends of the earth!

Rate and share this page:

You haven't rated. Average rating 3 out of 5, based on 1 rating

Share this page:

.

More like this

Comments

Login or Register to post comments

Post Your Comment

East is East and West is West

Archive Comments

It is often suggested that the people of the East and the people of the West think differently. For example it is said by some that Westerners think individualistically where Easterners think communally. My friend Wei Wang has suggested in other threads that Westerners think in an abstract manner where Easterners think in a more pragmatic, situational manner - if I understand correctly.

I find this proposition interesting, though I am somewhat sceptical.
I therefore invite Wei Wang to put his thesis to us for discussion. In particular I would be interested to hear of any academic studies which support the thesis. Further, given that abstraction is a fundamental human cognitive skill, is there any evidence from neurophysiology that Easterners and Westerners demonstrate different brain function?

BTW: The much maligned Kipling quote use to name this thread actually runs:

Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God’s great Judgement Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, tho’ they come from the ends of the earth!

Re: East is East and West is West

Archive Comments


China is characterized by dependency. With a different physical, economic and political environment, the Chinese emphasized familial, rather than organizational, dependency. In the traditional Chinese world, says Hsu (1961), the individual had a secure position oriented to mutual dependence within the clan. There was no internal drive for change. The world of the individual was compartmentalized and principles depended on local circumstances. As early as 270 B.C. Hsún-tzu articulated the function of the ruler as providing a place for everyone and recommended that everyone perform well in his place.
People moving into Greece or the Indus Valley encountered different physical and economic environments. Each was different from that existing in South China. Our study of brain evolution (e.g. Striedter, 2005) suggests that mental capacities develop according to environmental needs. We know that neural connections are pruned and grow in response to individual experience. Thus, people in those three areas would see things differently, would pay attention to different things and would develop cultural habits and attitudes that differed.

The Greek way of thinking, as indicated by the writings of their philosophers (600-300 B.C.), certainly differed from that of the Confucians of about the same era. The Greek way, which became the Western way, is thought to have arisen from the isolated and independent social environment. Individualists flourished in small communities and argued for their own ideas. They saw events as isolated particulars and considered that they had a lot of control over events, as they did over their own lives. Prizing their own power of thought, they attempted to explain and order what they observed into systems that followed rules.

Arguing from particulars and a system of logic, one seeks to find a single exception, for that exception will destroy the opposing argument. Similarly, rationale may be exalted above the facts. The thinking is "either/or" and the "or" is exclusive. Experiments have shown that a weak contra-argument will strengthen a Westerner's opinion, but will have the opposite effect with an Easterner. Peng and Nisbett, (1999), Davis, et. al. (2000).

The foregoing is from the start of a section on Chinese thinking in MacLean's Mind and Ideology. More can be posted, if there is interest.

Nakamura also has a book (last edition 1999) called Ways of Thinking of Eastern Peoples.

My memory is hazy, but I believe that Wang Sit-Chin
had a similar book.

Re: East is East and West is West

Archive Comments

Here are some serious references concerning the ways of thinking of East and West:

Nhu-Ngoc T. Ong. And Dalton, Russell J. “Authority Orientations and Democratic Attitudes in East Asia: A Test of the Asian Values” ‘‘Hypothesis.” Japanese Journal of Political Science. June 2005.

Nisbett, R. E. The geography of thought : how Asians and Westerners think differently-- and why. New York, Free Press. (2003).

Nakamaura, H. Ways of Thinking of Eastern Peoples. 1968.

Ohnuki-Tierney, Emiko., Kamikaze Diaries: Reflections of Japanese Student Soldiers University of Chicago Press 2006.

The Ohnuki book is especially valuable because it explodes the myths about Kamikaze pilots- it was really social conformity and they had no choice!

Re: East is East and West is West

Archive Comments

I'm not sure if it isn't a case of Anglo-Saxon is Anglo-Saxon and everything else is everything else.

Most of the questions posed at the end of lecture 2 certainly came from an Anglo-Saxon political/philosophical position. An underlying assumption that religion and 'Aristotle' should be kept out of the debate.

One could argue that the pinnacle of Western thinking on political-philosophy is very close, indeed almost indistinguishable, from 'Eastern' perspectives. I am thinking of Hegel's 'Phenomenology of Spirit' and the works of those who wrote under his influence: Nietzsche, Joyce, Foucault, Deleuze, Derrida and so on. What could be more Aristotelian than Hinduism? What more Hegelian than Buddhism?

But British moral philosophers are rarely interested in any of these discourses. This was all too apparent in the plenary of lecture 2.

As for morality and politics, the belief that one can make a distinction between them is the very root of the problems we face. As Aristotle said, what distinguishes humanity from the rest of the animal kingdom is that man is a political animal politikon zoon. As God said to Adam and Eve: who told you that you were naked? Furthermore, which institution is better positioned than the Christian Church to operate trans-nationally and locally at the same time?

Re: East is East and West is West

Archive Comments

...to operate trans-nationally and locally at the same time?

I stole a bike from Hollywell Street in 1988

Re: East is East and West is West

Archive Comments

I stole a bike from Hollywell Street in 1988

I once watched a film called 'Bicycle Thieves' ... Are there many eastern bicycle thieves?

Re: East is East and West is West

Archive Comments

...   ... Are there many eastern bicycle thieves?

Thieves of eastern bicycles?

or thieves from the east that steal bicycles?

all these questions could be avoided if a comma were placed correctly, comma sense is a thing of the past

you might think it's a waste of my time to get involved that I have better things to do but I do all those things as well, any way it comes with being omnipotent I guess (except I don't ever guess, bit pointless me trying to guess) you probably didn't stop to think about the sort of existence you humans created for me... ...still must crack on, haven't time to lolligag... ...that's not strictly true obviously I have time, all of it everywhere and I'm always there where ever time is becuase that's the sort of thing you do when you're omnipotent... ...at least that's what I do

Re: East is East and West is West

Archive Comments

...

Don't be so modest: please give yourself a capital "G"?

Re: East is East and West is West

Archive Comments

But surely, if God / god is omnipotent and universal, all the letters of his / His name (which, whatever He / she may be, was invented by humans) carry equal weight. So 'modesty' is irrelevant.

Re: East is East and West is West

Archive Comments

This article might help :-

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070712135003.htm

This website has many research done on different cultures and should be very helpful in your research.

Hope this helps!

Q. Ho

Article Information

Publication details
Wednesday, 23rd September 2009
Wednesday, 23rd September 2009

Copyright information
• Body text - Copyrighted: The Open University
• Image 'Chinese flags' - Copyrighted: BBC

Article Feeds

If you enjoyed this, why not follow a feed to find out when we have new things like it? Choose an RSS feed from the list below. (Don't know what to do with RSS feeds?)
Remember, you can also make your own, personal feed by combining tags from around OpenLearn.

About OpenLearn

Hide

Explore

Try

Study

OU Courses

OpenLearn Now

Hide

Tag Clouds

Hide

Site Cloud

What are Tag Clouds?

My Cloud

Discover the latest about your passions - Sign In or Register and start a personal tag cloud.

What are Tag Clouds?
http://www.open.edu/openlearn/sites/all/themes/ole/flash/tagcloud.swf

Creative Commons License Except for third party materials and otherwise stated, content on this site is made available
under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0 Licence

/openlearn/sites/all/themes/ole/