4.1 Becoming wiser

After the riots in the Spring of 2021, some of the young people making this course took part in cross community projects as well as working with William. In the following conversation between three of the boys, they reflect on the riots and how things have changed since then. You will hear them talk about their relationship with young Republicans before the riots and what happened when they spent time with them through a cross community youth project in the summer. Now listen to an audio clip from this conversation.

Activity 7: Boys’ conversation on ‘becoming mates’

Timing: 20 minutes

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Transcript: Audio 1: Boys conversation on ‘Becoming mates’

SPEAKER 1:

There’s difficult situations in every country of the world. Northern Ireland is just a bit different. Every young person is going to experience some sort of political happening going on in their country at some point in their life.

GABI (The Open University):

Do you want be part, then, of building the future here?

SPEAKER 1:

We already are building the future with the groups we do. We do cross community groups. We do groups, this is how we know all these Nationalists from North Belfast. Because we do different cross community groups.

GABI:

Can you tell me a bit about that?

SPEAKER 2:

About a year ago, we wouldn’t have done any of it. We wouldn’t even think about doing a cross community group. But the older you get, the more wiser you get, so you do. So, when I got older, I was just like, all right, what’s the point in doing all this? Aye, what’s the point in not having friends from the other side now? I’ve got loads of friends on the other side now. I’d never think I’d ever have friends from the other side.

SPEAKER 1:

Nah. You’d never like-- see, we used to go to organized fights with Nationalists. And then people we were fighting with-- well, a handful of the Nationalists, we used to go and organize fights over social media with, we wouldn’t to talk to them because they still want to fight. But the one, we run about with like the ones we used to fight, we used to go organize fights. You get it everywhere in Northern Ireland. Anywhere where there’s an interface.

SPEAKER 2:

There was nothing to do. Not a thing to do. We used to go up every day. It was mostly in the summertime, because you were off school. So, from about 12 that day right through to 12 that night, you’d be running up and down. Chasing each other. People would be like, literally, just hitting each other. Just anywhere they went. It was madness.

SPEAKER 3:

Just chasing. And the police used to come.

SPEAKER 2:

You used to-- people loved getting a peeler chase over here for a day. They think it’s fun.

PHILIP (The Open University) :

And peeler chase, what? Just getting chased by the police?

SPEAKER 3:

Aye

SPEAKER 2:

Aye literally. That’s what it is. Just getting chased. And they think it’s fun. I didn’t like getting chased. Like, see, when you get out of breath, no way. I couldn’t deal with it.

SPEAKER 1:

But now we’re all good mates with them. We all do groups. We all go on trips with them. We’re all close to each other.

GABI:

How did that happen?

SPEAKER 1:

I don’t know. Everyone just became more mature, didn’t they? Everyone just thought, what’s the point in this? Why? We actually became mates-- we were the ones who used to try to stop everyone from fighting. The first time we all met each other was when we went on a trip from all different areas around North Belfast. So, you have Shankill, Ligoniel, Shore Road, Tigers Bay, Ardoyne, and New Lodge. The first time we all got to get together and go on a trip and were civilized-- well, not civilized, but sort of mates, if you like. It was probably one of the best days we had over summer.

SPEAKER 2:

Aye. The banana boating was the funniest thing.

SPEAKER 1:

We went banana boating, and it was quality, you want to have seen it.

But this is with people that we never would have thought would have came on the trip with Protestants. And they were the nicest people.

SPEAKER 2:

Aye, the nicest. They were dead on. They were really nice, so they were.

SPEAKER 1:

They were really nice to us. Because me and him were the only Protestants. There were about 13 Nationalists and two Protestants there. Me and him were the only two Protestants, and they treated us like we were one of their own.

SPEAKER 2:

Aye. But we didn’t like any of them during the riots.

SPEAKER 1:

I was, one of my good mates, he wasn’t in the other riots. Neither was I. So, he just stayed away from the riots, know what I mean? That was mainly one of the reasons, the main reason I didn’t go to the riots. I didn’t want to tarnish any of the relationships I had with Nationalists.

SPEAKER 2:

I didn’t have no relationships with any Nationalists back then, so I didn’t. I was running about with the wrong people back then, so I was. Most of them mates back then - well, so-called mates - all they wanted to do was go out and fight every night and do stupid stuff. They still do it. And they’re like 18 now. Still do it.

SPEAKER 3:

They’re all in their late teens and they’re just getting on immaturely.

SPEAKER 1:

That’s all it is-- immatureness. Just immature, just looking for a chase from the police, looking for a fight with Nationalists. It’s just immature. There’s people from the Nationalist side who are like us, who just don’t want to go out and do all that, who just want to be mates. But then there’s people that also want to go out and fight, just like there is on our side. When you mature and you grow up, you realise - focus on yourself, don’t focus on the crowd you’re with. Don’t do the things you’re pressured into doing.

SPEAKER 2:

Oh, I don’t think I’ll ever go to a riot again.

SPEAKER 3:

I’ve never been to a riot.

SPEAKER 2:

Never again would I go to a riot.

SPEAKER 1:

If it ever comes around again, hopefully it’s not in the situation we’re in now. Hopefully there’s a political way of doing it, where politicians over in the mainland all listen to us and understand us.

GABI:

So can you imagine there’s other young people your age who end up reading this course that you’ve taught, that you’re part of making...

SPEAKER 1:

If I could change their perspective on the Shankill, or if I could change the perspective of young Nationalists on young Loyalists, I’d be delighted because

SPEAKER 3:

Aye

SPEAKER 1:

then they won’t look at us as hating them, they will look at us as wanting to make a change in Northern Ireland, wanting to make a change in our own community. If a Nationalist watched that and he decided to go make a change in his community, I’d be delighted because at least someone’s thought something of it and wanted to make a difference.

End transcript: Audio 1: Boys conversation on ‘Becoming mates’

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Audio 1: Boys conversation on ‘Becoming mates’

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• Is there anything you could relate to in this conversation?
• What do you think the boys mean by ‘becoming wiser’ or ‘more mature’?
• What did this make you think about your own relationships with young people from different communities?

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Discussion

What you took from this conversation will be personal to you. But there are a number of points you could pick up from this conversation. The boys forged new connections by spending time with CNR young people and getting to know them. While in the past they would have been organising fights over social media, the boys describe how they would now be the ones working with the other side to stop fights. Becoming more mature for them in short, means learning how to think for themselves.

As the boys point out, facing difficult situations and political happenings is part of life as young people. It is also something you can learn how to deal with. Becoming more mature involves knowing your own values and focussing on these and not on following the crowd. They also talk about their hopes for this course and that it is something that will open other young people’s minds, show another perspective, and help other young people find their voice and make a difference in their communities.

The boys describe being part of building the future in their communities and they see participating with cross-community groups as part of that process. (In Northern Ireland cross-community usually means people from PUL and CNR groups working together). Importantly, they describe how they connected with other young people who want to talk rather than fight. Finding connections with young people that share your values and working together on common problems can be a powerful way to make change happen.